Religion III

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

Totally agree. But I was asking Thask, and you can answer as well, if you believe in a 'higher power" that not only is our "higher power" but all life forms 'higher power" that is not necessarily called God. In other words "the source" for all life that is not necessarily called God.

The word "God" has too many connotations. Personally I can easily use the word "Love" as a substitute for "God". It is a lot friendlier and warmer and does not send you to Hell. Indeed the Bible in John 1 defines God as love and Love as God. To me that is the ONLY reason for existence itself.

Why do you appeal to any passage in the bible when you don't believe at least 99% of what is written in that book? Is it loving to be hypocritical, especially when the same book that you appeal to (when convenient) also describes God as being just and wrathful, and one who will judge the world and condemn for all eternity all those who hate him?

Also, where in John 1, specifically, does it define "God as love"?

Thirdly, since when is "love" a rational, moral, personal entity?

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Also, where in John 1, specifically, does it define "God as love"?

I believe he's referring to these:

1 John 4:8 - But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

1 John 4:16 - We know how much God loves us, and we have put our trust in his love. God is love, and all who live in love live in God, and God lives in them.





Edit- Of course I know your making fun of Light because he said "John 1".....Whatever.

[thaskalos]

God loves Boxcar...and those like him. Isn't that enough?

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

God loves Boxcar...and those like him. Isn't that enough?

You and Light are both loved by Him as well....And that still isn't enough?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

You and Light are both loved by Him as well....And that still isn't enough?

If he truly loved me...the Red Sox wouldn't score 5 runs in the bottom of the 6th yesterday.

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

If he truly loved me...the Red Sox wouldn't score 5 runs in the bottom of the 6th yesterday.

You have a point....Some things are a mystery I tell ya...

[fast4522]

I think that this war on religion is so bad it will show up in the midterm elections, something has to give.

[Light]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Why do you appeal to any passage in the bible when you don't believe at least 99% of what is written in that book?

I may not believe certain things in the Bible but I recognize wisdom when I read it. Examples are when Jesus says "Love your enemies" or when God says, "be still and know I am God".

BTW you cannot be "still" (in your mind) unless you meditate. That's how I know you've never experienced God. Your mind rules you with continuous drivel. You must stop your internal dialogue in order to experience God. When that happens is when you lose yourself (ego) and find/experience God.

There are other words of wisdom in the Bible. Then there are things that are written by man alleging it to be God. It is easy to separate what is written by man and what is told by a higher consciousness.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Is it loving to be hypocritical, especially when the same book that you appeal to (when convenient) also describes God as being just and wrathful, and one who will judge the world and condemn for all eternity all those who hate him?

I believe that to be an example of what is written by man in the name of God. It was a way to control the masses. People with NDE's who saw God will refute that as well. God has no wrath.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Also, where in John 1, specifically, does it define "God as love"?

I thought you read the Bible. RR filled it in.

1 John 4:8 - But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Thirdly, since when is "love" a rational, moral, personal entity?

If you experienced God you would know God is pure unbelievable love that no one on this planet would have to be convinced to love with all their hearts. It is also beyond your conception of superficial love. It has intelligence and depth beyond imagination. It is my highest and most pleasurable experience in this life. No religion is involved.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by Light

TBut I was asking ... if you believe in a 'higher power" that not only is our "higher power" but all life forms 'higher power" that is not necessarily called God. In other words "the source" for all life that is not necessarily called God.

I.e., you are asking if I believe that "There exists a superhuman, supernatural intelligence who deliberately designed and created the universe and everything in it, including us?"

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Light

I may not believe certain things in the Bible but I recognize wisdom when I read it. Examples are when Jesus says "Love your enemies" or when God says, "be still and know I am God".

BTW you cannot be "still" (in your mind) unless you meditate. That's how I know you've never experienced God. Your mind rules you with continuous drivel. You must stop your internal dialogue in order to experience God. When that happens is when you lose yourself (ego) and find/experience God.

There are other words of wisdom in the Bible. Then there are things that are written by man alleging it to be God. It is easy to separate what is written by man and what is told by a higher consciousness.



I believe that to be an example of what is written by man in the name of God. It was a way to control the masses. People with NDE's who saw God will refute that as well. God has no wrath.




I thought you read the Bible. RR filled it in.

1 John 4:8 - But anyone who does not love does not know God, for God is love.



If you experienced God you would know God is pure unbelievable love that no one on this planet would have to be convinced to love with all their hearts. It is also beyond your conception of superficial love. It has intelligence and depth beyond imagination. It is my highest and most pleasurable experience in this life. No religion is involved.

I thought you'd be able to cite the bible correctly, even though you're largely ignorant of its content. You did say John 1.

So, Love is "intelligent" -- just like you said once that love is the ruler (king) in the kingdom of God. And here I've been thinking all along that love is a moral attribute.

I think you have filled your head with so much Far Eastern Religious mush, you can no longer think straight. Best to meditate on the living Word of God which scripture commands because that alone is where true wisdom is to be found.

And Wisdom (personified in Christ since He's the Wisdom of God) only loves those who love the Word of God -- the Source of all Wisdom (Prov 8:17).

Col 3:16-17
16 Let the word of Christ richly dwell within you, with all wisdom teaching and admonishing one another with psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with thankfulness in your hearts to God.
NASB

[ReplayRandall]

Originally Posted by boxcar

And Wisdom (personified in Christ since He's the Wisdom of God) only loves those who love the Word of God -- the Source of all Wisdom (Prov 8:17).

Actually, Proverbs is referring to the Holy Spirit of God, but when talking about "a person" or flesh, as you've extrapolated, Christ is correct....When dealing with the essence of God, Christ himself warned not to deny the Holy Spirit, the ONLY unforgivable sin.

The source of all Wisdom is the Holy Spirit.

[mountainman]

Man needs strife, obstacles, worries, (sometimes insurmountable) problems, and even tragedy That's his nature and the result of having evolved to fit his environment. Thus any notion of a peaceful, happy after-life becomes a non-starter.

This world, along with existence itself, constitutes the ultimate Kobayashi Maru. And that's what humans crave, need, and are born for. Not some imaginary destination called heaven. Man travels , but never gets there. Man is no more meant to attain complete comfort and peace of mind than a greyhound is meant to catch the rabbit. And would have less use for a "heaven" than the racing dog has with the mechanical device he chases.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by ReplayRandall

Actually, Proverbs is referring to the Holy Spirit of God, but when talking about "a person" or flesh, as you've extrapolated, Christ is correct....When dealing with the essence of God, Christ himself warned not to deny the Holy Spirit, the ONLY unforgivable sin.

The source of all Wisdom is the Holy Spirit.

Is is it referring to the Holy Spirit...or the spirit of Christ? Jesus is specifically called the Wisdom of God in scripture.

1 Cor 1:24
24 but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God .
NIV

But in either case Wisdom is clearly being being personified in the Proverbs passage. And the text makes it very clear that only those who love biblical Wisdom are loved in return. So much for Light's unconditional love theory, which has no basis whatsoever in scripture.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Man needs strife, obstacles, worries, (sometimes insurmountable) problems, and even tragedy That's his nature and the result of having evolved to fit his environment. Thus any notion of a peaceful, happy after-life becomes a non-starter.

This world, along with existence itself, constitutes the ultimate Kobayashi Maru. And that's what humans crave, need, and are born for. Not some imaginary destination called heaven. Man travels , but never gets there. Man is no more meant to attain complete comfort and peace of mind than a greyhound is meant to catch the rabbit. And would have less use for a "heaven" than the racing dog has with the mechanical device he chases.

Man is a walking contradiction. He claims that he is in search of "happiness"...and yet he destroys his own happiness as if it were his enemy. He readily admits that life is hard and unfair...and yet he openly laments life's quick passing. And he expects a savior to come for him after death...even though no such savior can ever be found in life. One wonders why Aristotle called man the "Rational Animal".

[dnlgfnk]

Originally Posted by mountainman

Man needs strife, obstacles, worries, (sometimes insurmountable) problems, and even tragedy That's his nature and the result of having evolved to fit his environment. Thus any notion of a peaceful, happy after-life becomes a non-starter.

This world, along with existence itself, constitutes the ultimate Kobayashi Maru. And that's what humans crave, need, and are born for. Not some imaginary destination called heaven. Man travels , but never gets there. Man is no more meant to attain complete comfort and peace of mind than a greyhound is meant to catch the rabbit. And would have less use for a "heaven" than the racing dog has with the mechanical device he chases.

In what sense does "strife, obstacles...tragedy", etc., fit evolutions' fundamental function of reproduction?

Also Mountain, you're assigning teleology to nature when you state that humans are "born for" this or that. That's a no-no in materialism because it implies metaphysical final causation rather than mere efficient causation...

https://www.britannica.com/topic/teleology

I enjoyed your conversation describing the meeting with youthful visitors from Steubenville a few weeks ago.