He was a She

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

When and where is the Vet check performed...? Seems like it would be an onerous task to check thoroughly up to 14 horses in a very short time just before they leave to go to the paddock to be saddled...and then follow them out on the track, watching all of them warm up, and scratching some if need be..

Racehorses are naturally skittish animals and do not like anyone messing with them...I can see how turning the lip on 12 animals could take awhile....it would make sense if the Horse IDer had turned back the lip prior to the vet doing the Vet check...I never have seen any lip checking done in the paddock while saddling...I can see how a person who is not "the regular IDer" might not be able to check all the horses...

The vet checks occur the morning of the race. They go barn to barn looking at the horses who are entered that day. I've never heard that they have a problem seeing all the horses on their rounds. If they did, then it should be solved easily enough by hiring another vet.

The horse identifier is there during the races, and heads out to the paddock prior to the horses enter for each race. The horses come in and then stop for the identifier to check them off. They'll never make it to the saddling enclosure if they haven't already been checked off by the identifier. It doesn't take long at all to flip up the lip and read the tattoo.

There's really not much to understand how this happened innocently.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

The vet checks occur the morning of the race. They go barn to barn looking at the horses who are entered that day. I've never heard that they have a problem seeing all the horses on their rounds. If they did, then it should be solved easily enough by hiring another vet.

The horse identifier is there during the races, and heads out to the paddock prior to the horses enter for each race. The horses come in and then stop for the identifier to check them off. They'll never make it to the saddling enclosure if they haven't already been checked off by the identifier. It doesn't take long at all to flip up the lip and read the tattoo.

There's really not much to understand how this happened innocently.

I agree, but it is also bizarre how the deliberate exchange of horses SO different in appearance, markings, tattoos and gender could ever be thought to have worked to deceive...and surely the price to pay for being caught is not worth the effort...so I'm kind of looking at it like some kind of circus mix-up, where the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing...but either way, it doesn't look too swell...

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

I agree, but it is also bizarre how the deliberate exchange of horses SO different in appearance, markings, tattoos and gender could ever be thought to have worked to deceive...and surely the price to pay for being caught is not worth the effort...so I'm kind of looking at it like some kind of circus mix-up, where the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing...but either way, it doesn't look too swell...

I didn't get my previous post edited in time, but the last sentence should've read that it's hard to think that this was innocent unless the trainer/barn is guilty of complete incompetence.

I've heard that some barns do manage to get through the day with very little structure and are an overall mess. I agree with you that this seems like a pretty brazen attempt at running a ringer to bring the opposite sex and one with different markings to the paddock, so I guess I'll go with gross incompetence.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

I didn't get my previous post edited in time, but the last sentence should've read that it's hard to think that this was innocent unless the trainer/barn is guilty of complete incompetence.

I've heard that some barns do manage to get through the day with very little structure and are an overall mess. I agree with you that this seems like a pretty brazen attempt at running a ringer to bring the opposite sex and one with different markings to the paddock, so I guess I'll go with gross incompetence.

Probably the result of being spread too thin with barn help to send the wrong horse over...it might be something more careless if Broberg himself was doing the saddling or was there overseeing the help at the time...other than that, it looks a tad bad for the vet to miss it but not that much of a stretch, and do the Horse IDer's always check every horse all the time....? Probably not, though I really don't know for sure...and they did catch it later, at least...

Broberg can always chalk it up to a careless mistake made by his help...(What, does anyone really think that any trainer in his right mind would knowingly try to substitute a 6 year old mare, in this case, as a Ringer for a 4 year old gelding...?)

I think it might be interesting to know if any unusual betting on the winner occurred such that the horse was bet down harder than his PP's and ML would reasonably suggest...but nothing really can be made of that...stuff happens..

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Probably the result of being spread too thin with barn help to send the wrong horse over...it might be something more careless if Broberg himself was doing the saddling or was there overseeing the help at the time...other than that, it looks a tad bad for the vet to miss it but not that much of a stretch, and do the Horse IDer's always check every horse all the time....? Probably not, though I really don't know for sure...and they did catch it later, at least...

Broberg can always chalk it up to a careless mistake made by his help...(What, does anyone really think that any trainer in his right mind would knowingly try to substitute a 6 year old mare, in this case, as a Ringer for a 4 year old gelding...?)

I think it might be interesting to know if any unusual betting on the winner occurred such that the horse was bet down harder than his PP's and ML would reasonably suggest...but nothing really can be made of that...stuff happens..

There's no indication the vet missed it (assuming it was vetted).

If we go with the total incompetence theory, then I imagine the scenario was this:

Correct horse was vetted, given pre-race meds, and water removed from his stall. Nearing race time, the groom was either new or wasn't the groom for this particular horse, and without nameplates on the halters, grabbed the wrong horse and took it to the paddock. The identifier missed it, the saddler (trainer, assistant?) missed it (big yikes at that one), the horse ran, and I'm guessing it was caught after the race. Paulick's report I think untintentionally was misleading to some to think it was never caught by anyone because it said the PR was told of what happened when contacted by the breeder. I haven't read any follow ups to know if what I suspect, that they did catch the error post-race, is true.

So, all in all it proved that a horse doesn't have to get any pre-race meds and can keep his (or her) water and still win. 😀

[green80]

Originally Posted by VigorsTheGrey

Probably the result of being spread too thin with barn help to send the wrong horse over...it might be something more careless if Broberg himself was doing the saddling or was there overseeing the help at the time...other than that, it looks a tad bad for the vet to miss it but not that much of a stretch, and do the Horse IDer's always check every horse all the time....? Probably not, though I really don't know for sure...and they did catch it later, at least...

Broberg can always chalk it up to a careless mistake made by his help...(What, does anyone really think that any trainer in his right mind would knowingly try to substitute a 6 year old mare, in this case, as a Ringer for a 4 year old gelding...?)

I think it might be interesting to know if any unusual betting on the winner occurred such that the horse was bet down harder than his PP's and ML would reasonably suggest...but nothing really can be made of that...stuff happens..

I have never run at or even been to a track where the Identifier did not check every horse, every time. That is their job.

You made a coupe of interesting points. Usually when one tries to run a ringer it is a similar looking horse and of the same sex. I'm amazed no one in the saddling paddock noticed there was a gelding in the race for mares. Wouldn't take much of a horseperson to see that.

There should be people in the mutual dept that watch for unusual betting activity. All tracks can see the time a bet was made and pull the film from that window at that time and see who made the bet.

I find it hard to believe you can have such incompetence from so many people at the same time.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

There's no indication the vet missed it (assuming it was vetted).

If we go with the total incompetence theory, then I imagine the scenario was this:

Correct horse was vetted, given pre-race meds, and water removed from his stall. Nearing race time, the groom was either new or wasn't the groom for this particular horse, and without nameplates on the halters, grabbed the wrong horse and took it to the paddock. The identifier missed it, the saddler (trainer, assistant?) missed it (big yikes at that one), the horse ran, and I'm guessing it was caught after the race. Paulick's report I think untintentionally was misleading to some to think it was never caught by anyone because it said the PR was told of what happened when contacted by the breeder. I haven't read any follow ups to know if what I suspect, that they did catch the error post-race, is true.

So, all in all it proved that a horse doesn't have to get any pre-race meds and can keep his (or her) water and still win. 😀

Obviously, I have no idea what occurred, so i really should not be commenting on any of it...but it does give me an excuse to explore the backside and race time protocols a bit. If what you say is true about the groom grabbing the wrong horse, he could have only done this back at the trainer's barn, right...?

Isn't there a non-barn, non-paddock area where the Identified horses for the upcoming race wait until all the horses are IDed and they go over to the paddock in a file, together, so that such a mistake could not be made...?

In other countries I see the grooms wearing saddle cloths with the same number as their charges...as if there was a procedure of accompaniment (assigned Grooms alongside IDed and Vetted horses) at this critical juncture prior to the race.

[BrentT]

Highly unlikely this falls on the groom. The groom knows the horses they take care of better than anyone, they(most grooms)are with them or around them about 14 hours a day or more as most live at the barn or a tack room near by. The groom is not going to knowingly take the wrong horse to the paddock, unless instructed by the trainer or an assistant.

The trainer in this circumstance is without a doubt a cheat/liar/shot taker/etc.
There's a reason he owns 50% or more of the horses he has in training, most owners don't want to put up with all his ego B.S. I know this from first hand experience. I'm totally ashamed I ever paid this scumball a dime.

He was barred from Remington for the past couple years, gets back in this year and pulls this stunt. How they let him back in the first place is beyond belief.

[cj]

He wasn't barred from Remington, at least not on paper.

[cj]

I did hear from a few sources that Mr. Broberg hadn't been at Remington in a year, but returned to Remington Park that day or the day before.

While it was said the regular horse identifier wasn't working that night, that doesn't explain the first incident back on September 4th. That guy hasn't been back to work since this all came to light.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by cj

I did hear from a few sources that Mr. Broberg hadn't been at Remington in a year, but returned to Remington Park that day or the day before.

While it was said the regular horse identifier wasn't working that night, that doesn't explain the first incident back on September 4th. That guy hasn't been back to work since this all came to light.

Is anyone reporting on this outside of PR's initial article?

[chadk66]

Originally Posted by green80

The identifier has to match the letter and numbers under the horses lip to what is on their clipboard. A third grader could do if if he had somebody to lift the horses lip.

First the track vet checks the tattoo when he does the pre race vet check.

Second the identifier checks the tattoo in the paddock.

Third the Paddock judge checks the markings on the horse.

Did Broberg or an assistant saddle? They should know their own horses.

And they are telling us everybody failed these simple task.

And nobody at the track could tell a mare from a gelding?

This deal stinks and I think the public is being fed a line of BS.

have you ever read a tattoo? doesn't take long and they can get kinda hard to read. If the number was close to what it should be it's really easy to miss it. I'm not trying to make excuses but humans are involved and that's really all that needs to be said.

[chadk66]

my guess is the vet in the morning looked at the right horse. good help in the barn area is nearly impossible to find. so groom got drunk, high or whatever and brought the wrong horse up. trainer/assistant trainer has way too many horses and doesn't know one from the other. trusts groom to know what the hell he/she is doing. Identifier flat ass dropped the ball.

[VigorsTheGrey]

Originally Posted by cj

I did hear from a few sources that Mr. Broberg hadn't been at Remington in a year, but returned to Remington Park that day or the day before.

While it was said the regular horse identifier wasn't working that night, that doesn't explain the first incident back on September 4th. That guy hasn't been back to work since this all came to light.

Is it the mare that is all bay with a single star on her forehead and a brand on her left rear hind...? Is it the gelding with the bordered blaze....were these two horses the subjects in the Sept 4 mix up as well...?

[cj]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Is anyone reporting on this outside of PR's initial article?

I really have no idea. Has Paulick followed up? I asked Equibase about the process for changing the charts. It is being looked into.