Religion II

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yes, every religion thinks it's special because they never compare their theology against the bible's. However, Christianity knows it's unique on multiple levels because religious scholars have compared biblical Christianity against other world religions. The others pale by comparison.

Yes, every religion thinks it's special because they never compare their theology against the Tipitaka. However, Buddhism knows it's unique on multiple levels because religious scholars have compared Tipitakan Buddhism against other world religions. The others pale by comparison.

or ...

Yes, every religion thinks it's special because they never compare their theology against the Bhagavad-Gita. However, Hindism knows it's unique on multiple levels because religious scholars have compared Gitan Hinduism against other world religions. The others pale by comparison.

or ...

Yes, every religion thinks it's special because they never compare their theology against Dyanetics. However, Scientology knows it's unique on multiple levels because religious scholars have compared dyanetic Scientology against other world religions. The others pale by comparison.

Etc, etc, etc!

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Because it's not illogical. God needs no cause because his very essence is self-existence.

That does not address the question.

[hcap]

Originally Posted by boxcar

How does Tillich know there are an infinite variety of finite things? And why, logically, can't God be an infinite? Why can't he transcend all that he created?

It's seems that it is Tillich doing the very thing he condemns -- putting limitations on God.

I linked to a wiki page on Nontheistic religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religion

Tillich is only one proponent who contradicts god as the typical anthropomorphic projection of man as a DEITY.

As I mentioned your biblical literalism and conception of "god" is only one religious theory among many. And one that defies all of modern western thought. Bishop Ussher and you have no credibility.

Again for many an old bearded bitter man floating in the sky is NOT the reality. A deity is not needed.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

That does not address the question.

Yes, it does. Anything other attempt at an explanation would be illogical, e.g. the universe is self-caused, etc.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

I linked to a wiki page on Nontheistic religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nontheistic_religion

Tillich is only one proponent who contradicts god as the typical anthropomorphic projection of man as a DEITY.

As I mentioned your biblical literalism and conception of "god" is only one religious theory among many. And one that defies all of modern western thought. Bishop Ussher and you have no credibility.

Again for many an old bearded bitter man floating in the sky is NOT the reality. A deity is not needed.

Actually, God is NEEDED because he sustains this universe as we speak. What you really meant to say is that no deity is wanted. At least there are atheists out there who are honest enough to admit this... but you're not one of them.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Yes, every religion thinks it's special because they never compare their theology against the Tipitaka. However, Buddhism knows it's unique on multiple levels because religious scholars have compared Tipitakan Buddhism against other world religions. The others pale by comparison.

or ...

Yes, every religion thinks it's special because they never compare their theology against the Bhagavad-Gita. However, Hindism knows it's unique on multiple levels because religious scholars have compared Gitan Hinduism against other world religions. The others pale by comparison.

or ...

Yes, every religion thinks it's special because they never compare their theology against Dyanetics. However, Scientology knows it's unique on multiple levels because religious scholars have compared dyanetic Scientology against other world religions. The others pale by comparison.

Etc, etc, etc!

But Christian scholars have compared Christianity against the world's religions! What don't you understand about this? Which other religion offers the world salvation by a flesh and blood savior who still lives today? Which other ancient religion has any leader who still lives today? Which other religion offers salvation by grace through faith alone? And which other religion provides that saving faith as a gracious gift from God? And which other religious book has dozens of fulfilled prophecies in it like the bible does?

You really should quit speaking about things about which you have no knowledge.

[Actor]

You have not responded to #2746.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yes, it does.

The question was "Why must God be infinite?" We know that the universe if finite, therefore it would not take infinite power and energy to create it, if indeed it was ever created. Furthermore, none of the events in the Bible (and AFAIK any other holy book) require infinite power and energy. They could all have been pulled off by aliens or anyone else with a sufficiently advanced technology. Since none of these events require infinite power why attribute their cause to an infinite agent?

Originally Posted by boxcar

Anything other attempt at an explanation ...

Explanation of what? I don't think you understand the question.

Originally Posted by boxcar

... would be illogical, e.g. the universe is self-caused, etc.

Is that your response to #2746?

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by boxcar

But Christian scholars have compared Christianity against the world's religions! What don't you understand about this? Which other religion offers the world salvation by a flesh and blood savior who still lives today? Which other ancient religion has any leader who still lives today? Which other religion offers salvation by grace through faith alone? And which other religion provides that saving faith as a gracious gift from God? And which other religious book has dozens of fulfilled prophecies in it like the bible does?

You really should quit speaking about things about which you have no knowledge.

I agree! Christianity is "special"!

A criminal could commit atrocities for his entire life...and he could summon a priest, confess his sins, and ask for forgiveness on his deathbed...and all is "forgiven"...and the "heavenly afterlife" is his for the ASKING! Can you beat THAT?

I know that, if I were a criminal...Christianity would certainly be my religion of choice.

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by boxcar

You really should quit speaking about things about which you have no knowledge.

Nothing disingenuous there. You've lived by that philosophy. Especially when it comes to science.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

I agree! Christianity is "special"!

A criminal could commit atrocities for his entire life...and he could summon a priest, confess his sins, and ask for forgiveness on his deathbed...and all is "forgiven"...and the "heavenly afterlife" is his for the ASKING! Can you beat THAT?

I know that, if I were a criminal...Christianity would certainly be my religion of choice.

Quote me chapter and verse in scripture that teaches this!

And since you're a mere mortal and think you can outslick God Almighty, I know that would never happen -- anymore than it did with the rich man who had no sense of moral/spiritual urgency but ruminated on his riches and financial security right up to the point God pulled his plug!

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by HalvOnHorseracing

Nothing disingenuous there. You've lived by that philosophy. Especially when it comes to science.

I live by the philosophy that atheistic materialism is not logically possible.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

You have not responded to #2746.
The question was "Why must God be infinite?" We know that the universe if finite, therefore it would not take infinite power and energy to create it, if indeed it was ever created. Furthermore, none of the events in the Bible (and AFAIK any other holy book) require infinite power and energy. They could all have been pulled off by aliens or anyone else with a sufficiently advanced technology. Since none of these events require infinite power why attribute their cause to an infinite agent?
Explanation of what? I don't think you understand the question.
Is that your response to #2746?

So...you've changed your mind? You have gone from an eternal universe to a finite one? When did this happen? I thought you were sold out to the idea of an infinite universe?

Also, it doesn't necessarily follow that a finite universe requires a finite cause.
You've got lots and lots and lots of dots to connect before you reach any "therefore". Remember: an Infinite Uncaused Cause presents no logical difficulties.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

But Christian scholars have compared Christianity against the world's religions!t

With plenty of confirmation bias no doubt.

Originally Posted by boxcar

What don't you understand about this?

How could anyone be gullible enough to believe it.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Which other religion offers the world salvation by a flesh and blood savior who still lives today?

Offering and delivering are not the same thing. Whether or not Christianity's "flesh and blood savior" ever existed is still an unresolved issue.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Which other ancient religion has any leader who still lives today?

Christianity does not have a leader who still lives today.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Which other religion offers salvation by grace through faith alone? And which other religion provides that saving faith as a gracious gift from God?

What other religion preaches that people are born damaged and need salvation?

Originally Posted by boxcar

And which other religious book has dozens of fulfilled prophecies in it like the bible does?

We've been through this before. The Bible has zero fulfilled prophecies. It's all back fitting.

Originally Posted by boxcar

You really should quit speaking about things about which you have no knowledge.

You want me to accept everything you say ... don't ask questions ... close my eyes ... don't challenge you ... and check my brain at the door. Sorry. I won't do that.

You only believe this because you were born in a country where the dominant religion is Christianity. You were indoctrinated at an early age. If you were born in Saudi Arabia you would be just as fervent about Islam, and for the same reason. If you were born in India you would just as fervent about Hinduism. If you were born in Thailand you would be just as fervent about Buddhism. If you were born in Utah you'd be a Mormon. All assuming, of course, that your parents subscribed to the dominant religion of the area.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

So...you've changed your mind? You have gone from an eternal universe to a finite one? When did this happen? I thought you were sold out to the idea of an infinite universe?

The volume of the universe is finite, at one time less than a grain of sand. The mass of the universe must be finite, otherwise gravity would be infinite and the big bang could never happen. The question of time being finite or infinite or circular is still open.

Originally Posted by boxcar

Also, it doesn't necessarily follow that a finite universe requires a finite cause.

So you deny Newton's Laws of Motion?

F = ma

If the mass of the universe is finite (as it must be) and we have measured its acceleration then the Force that created it, if indeed it was created, must also be finite since the product of two finite quantities is also finite.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Remember: an Infinite Uncaused Cause presents no logical difficulties.

If God is infinite and the universe does not require an infinite, where where is all that unused power going to? Perhaps into an infinite number of parallel universes, as string theory suggests.