Paco at Parx

[alhattab]

In Sat 7th at Parx- 1 1/2 miles stake- Paco on Riden With Biden “eased in the final stages cost the place”. You couldn’t see it on tv other than right at the wire because winner Next won by 25 (!). It was egregious. First took the horse to the rail, then stopped riding well before the finish- maybe 50 yards maybe more. Nothing apparently wrong with the horse. I checked the DRF race replays and only the pan shot is available (there are head-on shots avail for the other races). Per Dan Illman in DRF “ Ridin With Biden's trainer, Butch Reid, appeared furious with Lopez during the unsaddling process” which seems to confirm nothing was wrong the horse. I heard Reid ask Paco that very question before Reid expressed his frustration.

He should get a serious vacation for this stunt.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by alhattab

In Sat 7th at Parx- 1 1/2 miles stake- Paco on Riden With Biden “eased in the final stages cost the place”. You couldn’t see it on tv other than right at the wire because winner Next won by 25 (!). It was egregious. First took the horse to the rail, then stopped riding well before the finish- maybe 50 yards maybe more. Nothing apparently wrong with the horse. I checked the DRF race replays and only the pan shot is available (there are head-on shots avail for the other races). Per Dan Illman in DRF “ Ridin With Biden's trainer, Butch Reid, appeared furious with Lopez during the unsaddling process” which seems to confirm nothing was wrong the horse. I heard Reid ask Paco that very question before Reid expressed his frustration.

He should get a serious vacation for this stunt.

It was a mile and a half race where Lopez's horse was chasing a much better horse that won by 25 lengths...haven't you seen slower horses chase better horses and tire 10,000 times, much less at a mile and a half? I also never heard of stiffing a horse by finishing 3rd at 6-1. It's a strange conspiracy, that's for sure.

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by castaway01

It was a mile and a half race where Lopez's horse was chasing a much better horse that won by 25 lengths...haven't you seen slower horses chase better horses and tire 10,000 times, much less at a mile and a half? I also never heard of stiffing a horse by finishing 3rd at 6-1. It's a strange conspiracy, that's for sure.

Yes I have.

Strange in this case as Lopez kept riding until about the 1/16 pole, then assumed a gallop out position as if the 1/16 pole was the wire. The horse was tired well before that point. If he was protecting the horse I think he would have stopped riding earlier. Lopez thought he had 2d wrapped up and just got lazy. “Just Paco being Paco” as a friend there said to me.

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by castaway01

It was a mile and a half race where Lopez's horse was chasing a much better horse that won by 25 lengths...haven't you seen slower horses chase better horses and tire 10,000 times, much less at a mile and a half? I also never heard of stiffing a horse by finishing 3rd at 6-1. It's a strange conspiracy, that's for sure.

Agree.

Horse was completely spent and had given his all. No sense in grinding out a 2nd place finish that could end in a catastrophic injury.

[elhelmete]

Originally Posted by PalaceOfFortLarned

Agree.

Horse was completely spent and had given his all. No sense in grinding out a 2nd place finish that could end in a catastrophic injury.

Especially in yesterday's conditions.

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by PalaceOfFortLarned

Agree.

Horse was completely spent and had given his all. No sense in grinding out a 2nd place finish that could end in a catastrophic injury.

He didn’t have to grind anything out here merely needed to stay in the saddle

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by alhattab

He didn’t have to grind anything out here merely needed to stay in the saddle

The horse was done at the quarter. Absolutely nothing left at the 1/16th pole.

Hard to defend Paco on much of what he does, but I have no problem with what he did with this one yesterday. You can seriously injure a horse or even ruin them by pushing them when they simply have nothing left. Horse gave him everything he had. No need to punish him for a placing, while also saving him for another day.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by alhattab

He didn’t have to grind anything out here merely needed to stay in the saddle

It's impossible to know how early he eased up, though admittedly it looked awful when they crossed the wire, without the head-on. However, not sure why you are arguing with someone that doesn't seem to understand why bettors ( and owners ) want their riders to ride the ENTIRE race.

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by the little guy

It's impossible to know how early he eased up, though admittedly it looked awful when they crossed the wire, without the head-on. However, not sure why you are arguing with someone that doesn't seem to understand why bettors ( and owners ) want their riders to ride the ENTIRE race.

while there is no excuse per se for this particular race, this horse has a bit of a history of tailing off at the end of races at times, especially when it is clear he won't win

was true in the Pegasus World Cup 2023 for example

https://www.equibase.com/premium/cha...3&cy=USA&rn=13

and at Parx last October

https://www.equibase.com/premium/cha...22&cy=USA&rn=9

maybe jockeys pick up on something and choose to ease off out of safety

hard to know from a distance, but asking jockeys to beat horses to get a bit more out of them in such situations smacks of the sort of unnecessary cruelty that the sport needs to stop encouraging

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

while there is no excuse per se for this particular race, this horse has a bit of a history of tailing off at the end of races at times, especially when it is clear he won't win

was true in the Pegasus World Cup 2023 for example

https://www.equibase.com/premium/cha...3&cy=USA&rn=13

and at Parx last October

https://www.equibase.com/premium/cha...22&cy=USA&rn=9

maybe jockeys pick up on something and choose to ease off out of safety

hard to know from a distance, but asking jockeys to beat horses to get a bit more out of them in such situations smacks of the sort of unnecessary cruelty that the sport needs to stop encouraging

Another horse collapses in the slop at BAQ pretty much as I typed this

Nice

[Robert Fischer]

Horse was empty, and too tired to change leads entering the stretch run.

Used a little early from the gate, and then tracked a superior horse far in front of the herd.

Empty at the top of the stretch. Before the stretch-run.

I can't see from the available replays whether there was more that Paco could have done.

Don't necessarily think that a rider should have to 'pose' at the wire for casual fans, if he's simply cruising home a completely empty horse.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

Another horse collapses in the slop at BAQ pretty much as I typed this

Nice

How many didn't?

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

Horse was empty, and too tired to change leads entering the stretch run.

Used a little early from the gate, and then tracked a superior horse far in front of the herd.

Empty at the top of the stretch. Before the stretch-run.

I can't see from the available replays whether there was more that Paco could have done.

Don't necessarily think that a rider should have to 'pose' at the wire for casual fans, if he's simply cruising home a completely empty horse.

It is a must that you 'ride' your horse to the wire regardless of circumstances for us bettors.

[Robert Fischer]

Originally Posted by PalaceOfFortLarned

It is a must that you 'ride' your horse to wire regardless of circumstances for us bettors.

I agree.
There can be a point where the horse is completely empty and the jockey is relegated to trying to 'guide' it safely through the finish and gallop, and it amounts to posing for the casuals.

but maybe he should 'ride' a completely empty horse through the wire for us bettors.

I don't know the answers.

This is outside my circle of competence.

When did Paco ease up?

How much did the horse have left at that point?

I don't know.

Some other members here would be more knowledgeable.

[Tom]

I don't with pushing a horse under any circumstances,
I will agree it it trainer's job to make sure he sends a horse fit enough to finish,