TVG has now reached the anti-horseplayer summit

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

Just a stab, but I am guessing that someone paying .25 for the honor of making a bet is probably not all that savvy.

Now that is a good point and that is a ridiculous fee....however, I still think that the majority of people who take it upon themselves to open up a personal account to wager from home have a better than average knowledge of the game....with the type of attitude implemented like the one taken at TVG for its sponsors and the tracks they present, there would be no gambling in this country at all, no bars, etc......if people are going to decide to gamble, they should do their research just like they should with any other investment vehicle, etc.....should we blame the stock market for having questionable companies on it that lead to people losing money? It just seems like everyone takes so many shots at companies while taking all of the personal responsibility away from the individual....the takeout rates are public knowledge and companies like cashcall are everywhere and if people didnt learn about them on TV, they would learn about them because many companies like that are just down the street.

[cj's dad]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

Just a stab, but I am guessing that someone paying .25 for the honor of making a bet is probably not all that savvy.

For the 100th time, the max is $20 per month which is refunded once you wager $2,500 per calender month.

Pretty sure it comes out to about $.66 per day if you wager every day.

And, if you don't wager that much, or you don't have the $20 to spare, don't bet with TVG- it's not real complicated.

You can choose an alternative, such as driving to the track, possibly paying to park, admission fees, high concession prices etc... you know be SAVVY.

[NoCal Boy]

First and foremost TVG is a business that has to generate cash in order to survive. PENN is a perfect track for them. It is an evening venue attracting fuller fields now that purses are slots-infused. No one is forcing you to wager on any track. However, TVG, through Betfair, is now starting to make business decisions that make sense. The old exclusivity model is dead for all intents and purposes. TVG now shows races from NY, NJ, Ky, WVa, Louisiana, CA, MA and PA, along with harness from IL, NJ, Ontario and Ohio. Some high takeouts, some low takeouts. Understand that without sound besiness decisions there will be no TVG to show races. Take a look at Magna to see the results of unsound business decisions.

For the record, I have never used TVG. I use Youbet exclusively, as well as being a shareholder of Youbet so I have no reason to love TVG. But they are being much wiser nowadays. Good for them.

Originally Posted by cj's dad

For the 100th time, the max is $20 per month which is refunded once you wager $2,500 per calender month.

Pretty sure it comes out to about $.66 per day if you wager every day.

And, if you don't wager that much, or you don't have the $20 to spare, don't bet with TVG- it's not real complicated.

You can choose an alternative, such as driving to the track, possibly paying to park, admission fees, high concession prices etc... you know be SAVVY.

[Canarsie]

Originally Posted by Relwob Owner

Your restaurant and bar analogies dont really do it for me so we can agree to disagree on this one. By your standards. TVG should only have ads and have sponsors from squeaky clean companies(good luck getting them to advertise on a horse racing channel) and broadcast tracks with really low takeouts, while ignoring potentially lucrative deals with ones with higher takeouts....TVG is a money making endeavour and just like every other coporation, the bottom line is making money and that is the case with every track in the country and every network in the country. Your standards for them are just unrealistic in my opinion.

Your "tainted food" example from before and your above example involving someone at a bar are really misguided in that with one, people are unaware of what is happening to them and in the other, their judgement is impaired. People who have TVG accounts are probably savvy enough to realize that the takeouts are high at Penn and can choose not to bet.

I would bet my bottom dollar you would never frequent a restaurant that put a surcharge on your bill at least in the USA. Then again maybe the restaurant will offer surcharge less Wednesdays

Another example I can give is going to a restaurant in northern NJ near where I work. One the price of the steak is $30 and a few towns away it's $15 and just as tasty less the ambiance.. Also throw in the drinks are 50% less where are you going unless you are out to dress to impress.

I'm not knocking people who choose to have TVG accounts but to me a surcharge is equivalent to a "usury" fee.

[Imriledup]

Originally Posted by Relwob Owner

Your restaurant and bar analogies dont really do it for me so we can agree to disagree on this one. By your standards. TVG should only have ads and have sponsors from squeaky clean companies(good luck getting them to advertise on a horse racing channel) and broadcast tracks with really low takeouts, while ignoring potentially lucrative deals with ones with higher takeouts....TVG is a money making endeavour and just like every other coporation, the bottom line is making money and that is the case with every track in the country and every network in the country. Your standards for them are just unrealistic in my opinion.

Your "tainted food" example from before and your above example involving someone at a bar are really misguided in that with one, people are unaware of what is happening to them and in the other, their judgement is impaired. People who have TVG accounts are probably savvy enough to realize that the takeouts are high at Penn and can choose not to bet.

So you are saying that companies should do ANYTHING they can to make every last dollar? I don't know about you, but i have a conscience, i wouldn't be able to 'serve that last drink' when i knew my customer was in bad shape.

[harcapper]

Finally we see some folks defending TVG.

It is what it is. A business that is in business to turn a profit. Also a vehicle designed to expose the previously unexposed to horse racing. They do a pretty good job of that in my opinion.

Although they offer generic and basic handicapping compared to us seasoned veterans, it is likely great info for the newbie. Their human and equine interest stories and specials that they do are well presented imo. The diverse commentators and handicappers give most every audience member someone to like and someone not to like. I personally do not give a rats butt if they are showing a track with a 25% three horse wager or a 28% three horse wager because I am not a newbie.

When the newbie becomes educated and moves on to finding tracks that offer better takeout numbers (which they should) we should be glad that TVG is around to help attract new horseplayers and owners to the sport.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by Imriledup

So you are saying that companies should do ANYTHING they can to make every last dollar? I don't know about you, but i have a conscience, i wouldn't be able to 'serve that last drink' when i knew my customer was in bad shape.

Please see post #33.....he said it best and better than I could. I dont think that companes should do anything necessary to make every last dollar.....however, I dont think that broadcasting a higher than normal takeout track and having a sponsor that is a high interest lender(whose owner actually throws millions into the sport) is comparable to serving someone too much at a restaurant.......if you have this sort of bleeding heart attitude,how do you justify your participation in the sport? The kinds of negative things that TVG supposedly represents and supports in your opinion are all over racing and given your strong opinion, I cant see how you would want to participate as a bettor.

[Relwob Owner]

[QUOTE=harcapper]Finally we see some folks defending TVG.

It is what it is. A business that is in business to turn a profit. Also a vehicle designed to expose the previously unexposed to horse racing. They do a pretty good job of that in my opinion.

Although they offer generic and basic handicapping compared to us seasoned veterans, it is likely great info for the newbie. Their human and equine interest stories and specials that they do are well presented imo. The diverse commentators and handicappers give most every audience member someone to like and someone not to like. I personally do not give a rats butt if they are showing a track with a 25% three horse wager or a 28% three horse wager because I am not a newbie.

When the newbie becomes educated and moves on to finding tracks that offer better takeout numbers (which they should) we should be glad that TVG is around to help attract new horseplayers and owners to the sport.[/QUOTE


Well put, in my opinion

[Imriledup]

Originally Posted by Relwob Owner

Please see post #33.....he said it best and better than I could. I dont think that companes should do anything necessary to make every last dollar.....however, I dont think that broadcasting a higher than normal takeout track and having a sponsor that is a high interest lender(whose owner actually throws millions into the sport) is comparable to serving someone too much at a restaurant.......if you have this sort of bleeding heart attitude,how do you justify your participation in the sport? The kinds of negative things that TVG supposedly represents and supports in your opinion are all over racing and given your strong opinion, I cant see how you would want to participate as a bettor.

I feel TVG should show the races that the public most wants to see. Penn National has been proven to allow past posting and also has an embarrassingly high takeout. The public doesn't want to see Penn Nat yet TVG forces it down the player's throat. Same thing with Los Al, people don't want to see that garbage, its not even thoroughbred racing, what's next, Flagler kennel Club?

As far as a high interest lender goes, its the same thing as a loan shark, its predatory.

[harcapper]

Originally Posted by Imriledup

I feel TVG should show the races that the public most wants to see. Penn National has been proven to allow past posting and also has an embarrassingly high takeout. The public doesn't want to see Penn Nat yet TVG forces it down the player's throat. Same thing with Los Al, people don't want to see that garbage, its not even thoroughbred racing, what's next, Flagler kennel Club?

As far as a high interest lender goes, its the same thing as a loan shark, its predatory.

We all have opinions as to what TVG should do but we must keep in mind that they are a business trying to turn a profit just like any other business. In a perfect world TVG would show the public what it most wants to see and would avoid tracks with higher takeouts.

I have read the complaints about high takeouts here but have often heard their commentators sell the pools at tracks where the takeouts are reduced. One example that stands out are the 15% takeouts that some tracks were offering on their pick 4 pools.

To rebut the Cash Call complainers, TVG also regularly shows GA info during the day.

Regarding your comments about Los Al and their Quarter Horse presentation, keep in mind that I am a Harness guy. TVG almost never shows a harness race live and aside from the Big M Friday and Saturday cards, they do not show the public what we would want.

I don't complain because I have come to appreciate TVG for what it is and think that they do a good job of presenting horse racing to the general public. IMO they do a better job then HRTV.

A serious capper should by now have moved on to RTN and fyi the RTN website has announced that they have reached an agreement with Dish Network and will be offering all North American Track for $50 per month as an add on to their standard services. I assume that Canada BEV TV will have this as well.

[Relwob Owner]

Originally Posted by Imriledup

I feel TVG should show the races that the public most wants to see. Penn National has been proven to allow past posting and also has an embarrassingly high takeout. The public doesn't want to see Penn Nat yet TVG forces it down the player's throat. Same thing with Los Al, people don't want to see that garbage, its not even thoroughbred racing, what's next, Flagler kennel Club?

As far as a high interest lender goes, its the same thing as a loan shark, its predatory.

Oh well, I guess we just agree to disagree on this one

[LottaKash]

I use Youbet for all my wagering and viewing needs....They supply everything I need ....I like that...

tvg, is irrelevant to me....

best,

[speed]

Originally Posted by cj's dad

For the 100th time, the max is $20 per month which is refunded once you wager $2,500 per calender month.

Pretty sure it comes out to about $.66 per day if you wager every day.

And, if you don't wager that much, or you don't have the $20 to spare, don't bet with TVG- it's not real complicated.

You can choose an alternative, such as driving to the track, possibly paying to park, admission fees, high concession prices etc... you know be SAVVY.

When there are many adw who charge nothing to make a wager is the point i believe.

[cj's dad]

Then those constantly complaining should use them. And BTW, how many other ADW's provide TV coverage??

[toetoe]

Originally Posted by harcapper

It is what it is.

AAARGH !!! (:Wincing, bleeding from ears.)