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04-16-2019, 04:38 PM
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#196
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Yes. The Father who created the earth which puts forth its bounty, to be fashioned by human hands into, bread, etc. The earth produces its fruits and grains, etc. more than enough to feed the population of the earth.
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How come he rained mana from the sky for the Israelites?
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"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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04-16-2019, 04:38 PM
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#197
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Do the photographer's actions explain the inactions of God?
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Yes. See earlier posts regarding Dave's "such a story" and free will of man.
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A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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04-16-2019, 04:40 PM
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#198
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
How come he rained mana from the sky for the Israelites?
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See earlier posts about miracles and teaching the nation of Israel.
It seems you are advocating that miracles should be the standard.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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04-16-2019, 04:44 PM
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#199
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,884
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
How come he rained mana from the sky for the Israelites?
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They were God's chosen people. Don't you know that He redeemed them from bondage to the Egyptians? This typological picture of physical bondage and then freedom foreshadowed what the spiritual picture looks like for God's New Covenant people when he frees them from bondage of sin.
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Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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04-16-2019, 05:13 PM
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#200
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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In honor of the God is unfair argument.
My argument against God was that the universe seemed so cruel and unjust. But how had I got this idea of just and unjust? A man does not call a line crooked unless he has some idea of a straight line. What was I comparing this universe with when I called it unjust? If the whole show was bad and senseless from A to Z, so to speak, why did I, who was supposed to be part of the show, find myself in such violent reaction against it? A man feels wet when he falls into water, because man is not a water animal: a fish would not feel wet. Of course, I could have given up my idea of justice by saying that it was nothing but a private idea of my own. But if I did that, then my argument against God collapsed too--for the argument depended on saying that the world was really unjust, not simply that it did not happen to please my private fancies. Thus in the very act of trying to prove that God did not exist--in other words, that the whole of reality was senseless--I found I was forced to assume that one part of reality--namely my idea of justice--was full of sense. Consequently atheism turns out to be too simple. If the whole universe has no meaning, we should never have found out that it has no meaning: just as, if there were no light in the universe and therefore no creatures with eyes, we should never know it was dark. Dark would be without meaning.--C.S. Lewis
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A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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04-16-2019, 05:14 PM
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#201
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Yes. The Father who created the earth which puts forth its bounty, to be fashioned by human hands into, bread, etc. The earth produces its fruits and grains, etc. more than enough to feed the population of the earth.
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And created man in his image.
Our father which art in heaven...give us this day our daily bread...
Why do you revere a father who withholds bread from his children?
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All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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04-16-2019, 05:16 PM
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#202
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxcar
They were God's chosen people. Don't you know that He redeemed them from bondage to the Egyptians? This typological picture of physical bondage and then freedom foreshadowed what the spiritual picture looks like for God's New Covenant people when he frees them from bondage of sin.
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No, Boxcar...I don't "know" about any of that. I do know that these things were written up in some ancient documents by some anonymous Israeli nomads...but I'm not willing to accept ANYTHING that I read as actual fact. I take as facts only the things that I can actually verify for myself. And, even if I did actually believe what is written in the bible, and I saw that God plays favorites among his creations...then I would have the same questions about his "divinity" as I do now. You can't have "chosen people"...and then demand reverence and worship from the world at large.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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04-16-2019, 05:19 PM
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#203
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
And created man in his image.
Our father which art in heaven...give us this day our daily bread...
Why do you revere a father who withholds bread from his children?
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Because Jesus was condemned to death, and accepted his sentence...so, the starving children of the world should act likewise...and dutifully accept the fate that has been bestowed upon them. That's the "New Christianity" for you. 
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"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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04-16-2019, 05:20 PM
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#204
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
And created man in his image.
Our father which art in heaven...give us this day our daily bread...
Why do you revere a father who withholds bread from his children?
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Since I must have not communicated my point about God creating an earth that produces a bountiful harvest.
Again, the earth produces enough bounty to feed God's children. It is man who withholds from his children.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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04-16-2019, 05:27 PM
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#205
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
Because Jesus was condemned to death, and accepted his sentence...so, the starving children of the world should act likewise...and dutifully accept the fate that has been bestowed upon them. That's the "New Christianity" for you. |
Is that what I said? No. Are you using boxcar's tactics now, twist the words of other posters.
Traditional Christianity is the same, life contains suffering, what we believe is evil is not necessarily evil, and we should feed the hungry. Feeding the hungry, consoling the sorrowful are integral to the faith. It is called self-sacrificial love.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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04-16-2019, 05:44 PM
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#206
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
And created man in his image.
Our father which art in heaven...give us this day our daily bread...
Why do you revere a father who withholds bread from his children?
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Actually if you understood the prayer the "bread" we pray for for is the bread of life, the bread from heaven. See John 6
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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04-16-2019, 06:07 PM
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#207
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Actually if you understood the prayer the "bread" we pray for for is the bread of life, the bread from heaven. See John 6
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Those who defend religious texts love to obfuscate. Oh, it doesn’t mean this, it really means that, blah blah. Immaterial. Bottom line is that you defend an all powerful God who has the power to feed the hungry and cure the sick and doesn’t.
Obfuscate away.
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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04-16-2019, 06:18 PM
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#208
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
Those who defend religious texts love to obfuscate. Oh, it doesn’t mean this, it really means that, blah blah. Immaterial. Bottom line is that you defend an all powerful God who has the power to feed the hungry and cure the sick and doesn’t.
Obfuscate away.
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Pointing out the spiritual meaning is not obfuscating. I pointed you to the relevant text for the spiritual meaning.
If you are going to criticize don't use straw-man arguments. The daily bread is a spiritual referral to John 6, the bread of life discourse.
Also, keep on denying that the earth produces a bounty to feed us. FYI the earth also gives us medicine to cure too.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
Last edited by Show Me the Wire; 04-16-2019 at 06:23 PM.
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04-16-2019, 06:23 PM
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#209
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 11,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire
Keep on denying that the earth produces a bounty to feed us. FYI the earth also gives us medicine to cure too.
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Never denied that. Are you suggesting I could snap my fingers and a starving child in Somalia could share my cornflakes?
Your God could.
__________________
All I needed in life I learned from Gary Larson.
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04-16-2019, 06:26 PM
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#210
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Quintessential guru
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 11,254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TJDave
Never denied that. Are you suggesting I could snap my fingers and a starving child in Somalia could share my cornflakes?
Your God could.
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You could snap your fingers before you send monetary aid or donate food to feed a child. Myself, I give to food for the poor, but I generally don't snap my fingers.
__________________
A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined; to which end a uniform and well-digested plan is requisite; and their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories as tend to render them independent of others for essential, particularly military, supplies.
George Washington
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