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Old 07-21-2009, 10:37 AM   #106
rokitman
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Get a consensus and all you'll ever have is an opinion that is average.
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Old 07-21-2009, 02:58 PM   #107
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Originally Posted by miesque
Indulto - Don't even bother, I am about 2-3 three posts from making you the first person I have ever put on Ignore on any board I have been on, so its pretty soon going to be a moot point.
Same here!
1st person I have ever done this to.
Just too much nonsense in any thread I read where I find him posting.
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Old 07-21-2009, 03:34 PM   #108
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Originally Posted by TimesTheyRAChangin
Same here!
1st person I have ever done this to.
Just too much nonsense in any thread I read where I find him posting.


In the end it all boils down to simple the fact that life is too short and I have to comment that I feel a lot better now that I have pulled the trigger.
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Old 07-21-2009, 08:50 PM   #109
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This thread has become an embarasment to all involved.

I suggest that it die.
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Old 07-21-2009, 10:23 PM   #110
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This Thread Rocks...

Ez
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Old 07-22-2009, 12:08 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by alydar
This thread has become an embarasment to all involved.

I suggest that it die.
alydar,
I disagree with your assessment. miesque has hardly embarrassed herself, having displayed her talent as a gutsy and entertaining cyber-gladiator; giving as good as she gets. I accept her cyber-payback for my commentary regarding her current contributions or lack thereof. Such combativeness will be necessary to achieve the most difficult objectives.

Post combat, however, Iím reminded of a kindergartner who puts her fingers in her ears when an adult is saying something to her that she doesnít want to hear. Not exactly the ideal image for someone wishing to represent others.

My now protectively-cocooned opponent should take comfort in knowing she is responsible for much introspection both prior to and following my previous post. Placing my on-line persona under a microscope -- and trivializing my reluctance to sacrifice my personal privacy when demanded to do so by some whose motivation and objectives were unclear to me at the time -- has replenished my confidence in my principles. To be fair, there were signs that subsequent reform agendas would be unlikely to match initial rhetoric well before JP returned to active duty following my discharge.

Miesque is but one individual among several who may yet achieve their collective potential if they donít continue to exclude others with ideas at variance with their own. The launching of the blog was a tremendously rewarding experience. I suspect the success of the track ratings project culminating with the meeting at KEE must have resulted in yet another high for my former colleagues. I wish them many more. Once they deliver on the feedback commitment, Iím sure they will.

Just in case this thread is closed, I want to express my regret at not having paid enough attention last July to the interests of people who are prevented from watching and wagering on horseracing a) because of their residency in states that donít allow them to, and b) due to infirmity. IMO this should be part of the signal availability issue. My failure to pursue it at the time is the only thing that embarrasses me about my participation at PA or HANA.

Along those same lines, before a horseplayer contributes to a horse rescue operation, Iíd like him/her to stop and consider whether they might also/rather reach out to an infirm former player who would enjoy some contact with racing; whether making it possible for them to watch races not televised on regular TV or maybe just spending a little time talking with an Alzheimerís patient who may not know what day it is, but can still remember the Jaipur/Ridan Travers as if it were yesterday.
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Old 07-22-2009, 03:24 AM   #112
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wow
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Old 07-26-2009, 02:23 PM   #113
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I had to laugh at the contrast in the size of posts #111 and #112.

It's like Rush Limbaugh meets Harpo Marx.
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Old 07-26-2009, 07:19 PM   #114
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Originally Posted by swetyejohn
I had to laugh at the contrast in the size of posts #111 and #112.

It's like Rush Limbaugh meets Harpo Marx.
I would have preferred you had chosen a left-leaning bombast for your comparison, but I commend you for keeping your fingers out of your ears so far. Should you subsequently decide to join your colleague in her pursuit of ignorance using the IGNORE facility, don't demean yourself by duplicating her drive-by execution.

That woul only encourage me to create another "wow moment" for PA.
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Old 07-26-2009, 09:03 PM   #115
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Originally Posted by Indulto
Should you subsequently decide to join your colleague in her pursuit of ignorance using the IGNORE facility, don't demean yourself by duplicating her drive-by execution.
Your post is a perfect example of what Steve Karpman, MD called the "Drama Triangle". Howard Sartin presented the concept in his document called "The Psychology of Winning, an Introduction to Win Therapy".

This is where the "scripts" are lived and all transactional games are played. Each player rotates around the Drama Triangle, alternately playing the roles of Persecutor, Rescuer and Victim throughout life.

You try to draw others into the game by what is refered to as manipulation by adaptation.

In this instance, you have taken the role of Persecuter and tried to draw me into the Triangle by telling me not to demean myself "by duplicating her drive-by execution".

Miesque gave you an adult response and chose to no longer play your game. You found this unsatisfying and you now seek other willing players. No doubt you will find others to play your game. Millions of people participate in the Drama Triangle everyday.

I am not interested in playing, either. Have a good life -- whoever you are.
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Old 07-26-2009, 10:56 PM   #116
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swetyejohn
Your post is a perfect example of what Steve Karpman, MD called the "Drama Triangle". Howard Sartin presented the concept in his document called "The Psychology of Winning, an Introduction to Win Therapy".

This is where the "scripts" are lived and all transactional games are played. Each player rotates around the Drama Triangle, alternately playing the roles of Persecutor, Rescuer and Victim throughout life.

You try to draw others into the game by what is refered to as manipulation by adaptation.

In this instance, you have taken the role of Persecuter and tried to draw me into the Triangle by telling me not to demean myself "by duplicating her drive-by execution".

Miesque gave you an adult response and chose to no longer play your game. You found this unsatisfying and you now seek other willing players. No doubt you will find others to play your game. Millions of people participate in the Drama Triangle everyday.

I am not interested in playing, either. Have a good life -- whoever you are.
Hmmmm. Your drive-by sign-off is consistent with my suspicions as to who initiated the anonymity issue internally.

Interestingly, it was you who brought this thread back into the light, so for you to try and claim that you are above manipulation is somewhat ludicrous. Especially since -- more than anyone else -- you were responsible for the formation of HANA. You spent considerable time getting people into the War Room and also served up more than your share of reform rhetoric. The blog would never have been launched without your approval; the timing of which you indicated was motivated in part by alleged disparaging remarks from a racetrack executive toward horseplayers.

Your subsequent reversal of cyber-form is one of the biggest disappointments of my HANA experience. Even though you choose to use your first and last name, and have assumed a visible position for public consumption, how many members really know who you are, what motivates you, or who you represent?

At least miesque is no hypocrite.
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Old 07-28-2009, 03:53 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanT
John,
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanT

As we mentioned earlier, the polling of members is progressing. A HANA member who is a professional in polling and polling via the web has offered his services and guidance for free. We had one phone meeting with him and we have another scheduled to move it forward.

It is going to cost a little bit of money, but we think it will be a good thing, and we hope with his expertise to get some good feedback on issues in the best scientific way we can, via members. There is quite a bit that goes into these things that I was completely unaware to make sure you are not getting skewed data. I guess that is why people hire people like this fella!

We cant give you a timeline on this, as it is still in the early stages, but I would hope it will not take too long, and by doing it with a professional pollsters help, we can at least be sure we set the table to get some good feedback en masse.

D
Iíve been wondering how HANA expects to use sophisticated polling software and/or services? I'm all for deploying the volunteer services of the above-mentioned pollster/player, but how sophisticated does polling need to be to keep people in the loop?

As it was recently explained to me, sophisticated polling is used by political campaigns to determine who will vote. It is not enough just to know an individualís preference for a particular candidate, but also whether or not he/she will actually vote, and whether or not this individual is representative of the far larger number of people he/she will be representing in the polling sample.

As I understand it, such techniques might be useful in polling people who are not members of HANA to find out not only why they arenít, but also whether theyíre ever likely to be, and again whether they are representative of a larger group. A similar poll might provide insight as to what issues a horseplayers group should be pursuing in order to increase its membership.

However, does a 1300+ membership require such sophistication in order to express its views clearly about what its leadership is currently doing and what it is planning on doing in the future? IMO it only needs the opportunity to actually do so. Is this just another way of delaying that opportunity?

I donít expect a response from those who are ignoring my posts, but the above post should not be allowed to remain the last one forthcoming on the subject.
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Old 07-28-2009, 08:17 PM   #118
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HANA can make giant leaps towards communication with its membership by simply adopting a policy of regular "newsletters" that keeps members in the loop about HANA's progress; and, its plans going forward.

HANA chooses not to do that. Why, I do not know. It's pretty basic stuff when it comes to organizational behavior. A year (or less) from now, when HANA is deemed to have been a failure, people will be posing the "why" questions. Given the propensity of HANA's leadership towards non-member communication, I don't expect the "why" answers will have much substance.

I'm waiting for HANA to acknowledge that the ONLY bargaining chip that horseplayers (read: members) have is their money. Ducking the obvious with weekly "pool parties" at high-takeout venues and then engaging in self-congratulatory proclamations about how much HANA increased the pools in Race N at the target venue is pretty damn stupid. Harsh? Damn right.

It is what it is.
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Old 07-28-2009, 09:36 PM   #119
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbauer
HANA can make giant leaps towards communication with its membership by simply adopting a policy of regular "newsletters" that keeps members in the loop about HANA's progress; and, its plans going forward.

HANA chooses not to do that. Why, I do not know. It's pretty basic stuff when it comes to organizational behavior. A year (or less) from now, when HANA is deemed to have been a failure, people will be posing the "why" questions. Given the propensity of HANA's leadership towards non-member communication, I don't expect the "why" answers will have much substance.

I'm waiting for HANA to acknowledge that the ONLY bargaining chip that horseplayers (read: members) have is their money. Ducking the obvious with weekly "pool parties" at high-takeout venues and then engaging in self-congratulatory proclamations about how much HANA increased the pools in Race N at the target venue is pretty damn stupid. Harsh? Damn right.

It is what it is.
Rich,

It's only been 3 weeks since our last newsletter and the pool parties have been done at the initiative of and led by 2 HANA members. Our policy is certainly not to discourage member participation.
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