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Old 07-15-2009, 06:51 PM   #61
Indulto
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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Impossible!

Satish Sanan and others are carrying Pope around on their shoulders and calling him a hero in the Paulick thread.

This is just amazing.

We are doomed!
I thought you and SS would have lots in common as horseowners, Big Bettors, etc., so what do you mean "We,' Kemo Sabe? BTW are you going to put up 10K to enter the BC contest?
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:54 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Impossible!

Satish Sanan and others are carrying Pope around on their shoulders and calling him a hero in the Paulick thread.

This is just amazing.

We are doomed!
That's tough to read. Nice try on the response. But ....... zooooommmm.
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Old 07-15-2009, 06:55 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Impossible!

Satish Sanan and others are carrying Pope around on their shoulders and calling him a hero in the Paulick thread.

This is just amazing.

We are doomed!
You did good, but I tried to top you.
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Old 07-15-2009, 07:02 PM   #64
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Only in racing does an idea which proposes giving more money back to the people who created the problem make sense. In any other business they would not even have a forum. It's like the former CEO of AIG saying "hey, give me another $20b and let me have another crack at it", and people actually saying "sure".
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Old 07-15-2009, 07:16 PM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanT
Only in racing does an idea which proposes giving more money back to the people who created the problem make sense. In any other business they would not even have a forum. It's like the former CEO of AIG saying "hey, give me another $20b and let me have another crack at it", and people actually saying "sure".
I'll tell you another thing that irks me big time, when you see an owner win a big stake race at a price and they say "they never bet."

I believe them, but when they say it, it makes me feel like a sucker.
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Old 07-15-2009, 07:55 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indulto
I thought you and SS would have lots in common as horseowners, Big Bettors, etc., so what do you mean "We,' Kemo Sabe? BTW are you going to put up 10K to enter the BC contest?
We have nothing in common......word on the street is that he doesn't like to pay.

Even though I never play in contests, the BC one is a possibilty because they let you enter twice and there is a chance I am going.

Last edited by InsideThePylons-MW; 07-15-2009 at 07:58 PM.
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Old 07-15-2009, 08:29 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeanT
Only in racing does an idea which proposes giving more money back to the people who created the problem make sense. In any other business they would not even have a forum. It's like the former CEO of AIG saying "hey, give me another $20b and let me have another crack at it", and people actually saying "sure".
Horse racing is hilarious.

Make a bunch of money in another business.....invest $100 million in racing....lose $60 million.....the people in charge of racing proclaim you a genius and put you in a position of power
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Old 07-16-2009, 12:55 AM   #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P
To those who think HANA should be a bunch of militants running around blowing up race tracks... I'll not apologize for aking a different approach to things. I'm not about to apologize for quietly growing membership and working behind the scenes to: gain a true understanding of problems that plague the industry and effect change from there.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P

If you want to blow up race tracks go start your own organization. ...
That was the second reference by a HANA board member to “blowing up racetracks.” The first time was humorous in its context. This latest one seems more reflective of a siege mentality. Threads like this one will keep occurring until members are regularly kept abreast of what’s going on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P
Want a HANA Flag to rally around?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P

Here's what HANA stands for:

1. Signal Availability

2. Takeout Reduction

3. Drugs

4. Pool Integrity

If there were a HANA flag, THESE would be the rallying points. …
Just out of curiosity, if lower takeout isn’t the primary goal, what will the availability of more signals at high takeout do for us?

You need to know whether your stated priorities are sanctioned by the membership. How can HANA members have a collective voice in the industry if they don’t have a voice in their own organization?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P
I want change in the above four areas. Staging protests and boycotts and getting in shouting matches with industry leaders isn't going to effect change.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P

… Sitting down at the table with them and making them aware of customer needs and wants - and shining a spotlight on areas where those needs and wants are ignored the most IS getting us some traction. We've been at it just under a year and in that time I HAVE seen an attitude shift starting to take place within the industry. Whereas I saw absolutely none before we got started. Maybe that change is subtle. And maybe it's based on the fact that they at least know that we will shine a spotlight on them (which they hate btw)...

… But yes, I'm completely serious when I say I hope it never has to come to that. I'm completely serious when I say it's in the industry's best interest to effect change on their own and do it right now.

Because without sweeping change a whole lot of tracks currently on the bubble are going to close in the next few years. And that won't be because of HANA. It'll happen because those in charge of racing lack the vision to make the very changes that are so desperately needed - and because they deliberately chose to ignore the recommendations of all the panels and outside consultants that they hired - and because they chose to ignore something that no business should ever ignore: the importance of the customer and customer needs and wants. ...
On one hand you say “staging protests … isn’t going to effect change,” while on the other you say that tracks hate having the spotlight shined on them.

No-one here would argue that “it's in the industry's best interest to effect change on their own and do it right now,” but a re-reading of Sanan’s and Pope’s remarks at the Paulick Report should reinforce the reality of the subsequent bolded phrases in the above quote which in turn suggest that all HANA's eggs shouldn't be in the non-confrontational basket.

But at least HANA continues to make people aware of issues and gather them into its fold. However, when an alleged membership exceeding 1200 can’t get involved even when willing, it suggests a static leadership; incapable of expanding and delegating. What’s the point of belonging to an organization that doesn’t let its membership know what it’s planning and doing until no further input is possible or necessary, and no mechanism exists to obtain collective feedback to determine the level of support for those actions? The current approach -- inviting people to join only to watch silently, while a small group of part-time volunteers attempts to filter most non-PA input through themselves first -- limits what can be accomplished.

IMO you need to expand the board/team. I further suggest you find tasks you could delegate even to anonymous members. Because I’ve been on your case about communicating with the membership, I would be willing to spend the time necessary to create feedback polls from some subset of your weekly minutes that you might be willing to send me. You would then receive a copy of the poll introduction post and option text for your approval/editing prior to actual submission. However, if others are willing to volunteer for this task with whom you would be more comfortable working, I would not be insulted, but quite satisfied at having contributed a useful idea.

Most polls would be informative; simply describing individual issues and utilizing a response set similar to the following:
1) Agree, Disagree, No Opinion
2) Support, Oppose, No Opinion
3) Have great Interest in, Have little interest in, Have no interest in
4) Approve, Disapprove
5) Etc.

Others might be multiple option polls to a) select a preference or b) indicate priorities.

If the pseudonyms of poll responders are not hidden, it would enable like-minded members to contact each other to collectively prepare and refine ideas prior to presentation to leadership, and avoid bogging them down in the process.
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Old 07-16-2009, 03:06 AM   #69
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In other words...

Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
Horse racing is hilarious.

Make a bunch of money in another business.....invest $100 million in racing....lose $60 million.....the people in charge of racing proclaim you a genius and put you in a position of power
To carry the idea out further- Doesn't matter how you make your money- as long as you spend it in racing! Yep, too bad racing interest is nowhere near the other pro sports.
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Old 07-16-2009, 09:38 AM   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indulto
[color=black]That was the second reference by a HANA board member to “blowing up racetracks.” The first time was humorous in its context. This latest one seems more reflective of a siege mentality. Threads like this one will keep occurring until members are regularly kept abreast of what’s going on.Just out of curiosity, if lower takeout isn’t the primary goal, what will the availability of more signals at high takeout do for us?

You need to know whether your stated priorities are sanctioned by the membership. How can HANA members have a collective voice in the industry if they don’t have a voice in their own organization?On one hand you say “staging protests … isn’t going to effect change,” while on the other you say that tracks hate having the spotlight shined on them.

No-one here would argue that “it's in the industry's best interest to effect change on their own and do it right now,” but a re-reading of Sanan’s and Pope’s remarks at the Paulick Report should reinforce the reality of the subsequent bolded phrases in the above quote which in turn suggest that all HANA's eggs shouldn't be in the non-confrontational basket.

But at least HANA continues to make people aware of issues and gather them into its fold. However, when an alleged membership exceeding 1200 can’t get involved even when willing, it suggests a static leadership; incapable of expanding and delegating. What’s the point of belonging to an organization that doesn’t let its membership know what it’s planning and doing until no further input is possible or necessary, and no mechanism exists to obtain collective feedback to determine the level of support for those actions? The current approach -- inviting people to join only to watch silently, while a small group of part-time volunteers attempts to filter most non-PA input through themselves first -- limits what can be accomplished.

IMO you need to expand the board/team. I further suggest you find tasks you could delegate even to anonymous members. Because I’ve been on your case about communicating with the membership, I would be willing to spend the time necessary to create feedback polls from some subset of your weekly minutes that you might be willing to send me. You would then receive a copy of the poll introduction post and option text for your approval/editing prior to actual submission. However, if others are willing to volunteer for this task with whom you would be more comfortable working, I would not be insulted, but quite satisfied at having contributed a useful idea.

Most polls would be informative; simply describing individual issues and utilizing a response set similar to the following:
1) Agree, Disagree, No Opinion
2) Support, Oppose, No Opinion
3) Have great Interest in, Have little interest in, Have no interest in
4) Approve, Disapprove
5) Etc.

Others might be multiple option polls to a) select a preference or b) indicate priorities.

If the pseudonyms of poll responders are not hidden, it would enable like-minded members to contact each other to collectively prepare and refine ideas prior to presentation to leadership, and avoid bogging them down in the process.
Actually we do have plans in the works to do a comprehensive survey of members, right now its in its formative stages and frankly the less time that Board members spend on the internet getting involved in circular, long winded arguments, the greater chance it and other items will get moved along at a faster rate, so I will keep this brief and don't be offended if I do not respond because I don't have time today.

Also, Indulto, I have to thank you for making me chuckle (which is no mean feat after having inadvertently spilled an entire full venti sized cup of Starbucks all over my desk just a few minutes ago after getting to the office this morning after being out of town the past week). After the HANA Board has been subjected to much criticism about how it is running the organization, you are suggesting we delegate tasks to anonymous individuals and rely on them to not only get something done but also to in effect represent the organization by their actions? Now that is some tightly, well run entity you are proposing.
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Old 07-16-2009, 02:02 PM   #71
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Originally Posted by miesque
Actually we do have plans in the works to do a comprehensive survey of members, right now its in its formative stages and frankly the less time that Board members spend on the internet getting involved in circular, long winded arguments, the greater chance it and other items will get moved along at a faster rate, so I will keep this brief and don't be offended if I do not respond because I don't have time today.

Also, Indulto, I have to thank you for making me chuckle (which is no mean feat after having inadvertently spilled an entire full venti sized cup of Starbucks all over my desk just a few minutes ago after getting to the office this morning after being out of town the past week). After the HANA Board has been subjected to much criticism about how it is running the organization, you are suggesting we delegate tasks to anonymous individuals and rely on them to not only get something done but also to in effect represent the organization by their actions? Now that is some tightly, well run entity you are proposing.
miesque,
You always did come across as a Starbucks consumer. Why pay $1 for a cup of coffee when $5 will do?

Your inability to find any value in my offer was expected, but I felt compelled to answer Dean's call for people to actually put time in to implement the ideas they champion. Far from wanting to represent HANA, I was specifying a clerical task that needed to be performed for the benefit of the entire membership. I hope someone else steps forward to fill the void you might otherwise be creating with the inflexible leadership style to which I referred.
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:14 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by miesque
... After the HANA Board has been subjected to much criticism about how it is running the organization, you are suggesting we delegate tasks to anonymous individuals and rely on them to not only get something done but also to in effect represent the organization by their actions? ...
It occurred to me that it may NOT have occurred to you that whomever such tasks are eventually delegated to, the supervising team member will have to create (with PA’s permission) shared accounts; with pseudonyms like “HANA Feedback,” for example. That would address your “representation” problem, and even make transparent which and how many members were involved.

Is this even a security issue or one of insecurity? I'm curious as to how rigorously you're planning to vet each prospective non-anonymous volunteer to ensure their “reliability” Will a resume and personal references be required?

Grass Roots, eh?

Regarding their ability "to get something done," will the "I have a job and I'm not getting paid" mantra suffice at lower levels?

As to criticism, what is it you think you're subjecting industry leadership to? (When you're not exchanging bouquets, that is. ) I guess you can dish it out, but maybe you can't take it.
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Old 07-18-2009, 11:13 PM   #73
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You are still whining about this? What organization do you know of that allows an anonymous member to perform an active role?
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Old 07-19-2009, 03:03 AM   #74
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You are still whining about this? What organization do you know of that allows an anonymous member to perform an active role?
Hey cj, remember the joke about the prisoners who don’t retell jokes, but call out numbers instead? Let’s start counting your tedious standard retort renewals. I estimate this one to be #21, which would make the previous one #20:
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
It is easy to be critical when you are a nameless person on a keyboard. I respect your opinions, but not nearly as much as somebody with nothing to hide laying out what they think.
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Originally Posted by Indulto
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indulto
I respect your accomplishments, but not your repeatedly gratuitous deployment of the anonymous keyboarder defense when you can't come up with anything else to counter my remarks. …
BTW whatever resulted from the HANA website work you volunteered for last July?
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Old 07-19-2009, 08:56 AM   #75
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As for the web site, I help when asked.

I wasn't making a joke, but asking a serious question. I can't think of any organization that would allow an anonymous member to perform an active role.
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