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Old 08-16-2018, 01:58 PM   #7756
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You and the other Christians know that the biblical God exists, but you can't prove it. And the rest of us know that he DOESN'T exist...but we can't prove that either. So...it's a stalemate...and I declare this debate a DRAW! Fair enough?
Does that mean the thread will be locked?
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:22 PM   #7757
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That presupposes that I already believe.
No, it doesn't. I didn't believe in God the first time I prayed to him. However, my prayer was sincere. I wanted to know if he was real -- if he really exists. Whereas you do not. That's the difference between you now and me then.
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:31 PM   #7758
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How do you know he doesn't exist? We both can't prove it, but only one group knows for sure that He does exist because of the kind of witness of himself he has given to his people. In addition to that, the kind of faith God's people have been given by him assures them of things hoped for and the certainty of things not seen (Heb 1:1). This is why a true Christian can never fall away. True Christians actually do have proof of God's existence but that proof is hidden from the world's eyes.

A very good analogy to this kind of proof are the 40 days that Christ spent with only his disciples after his resurrection. This is why the resurrection was THE life-changing event for his disciples (which consisted far more than just the 11) and why they were transformed into bold, courageous witnesses for Christ.
Conversely, no unbeliever saw the resurrected Christ during those 40 days.
Christ hid himself from the unbelieving world for the same reasons he spoke in parables during his ministry.

The best you can say is that you hope God doesn't exist; for you have no kind of proof that he doesn't.
You have no real proof that God exists either...don't deceive yourself. Other religious founders have left behind plenty of devoted "witnesses" who exhibited a lot of "faith", but, strangely enough...you find such proof "unconvincing" when it comes from the 'other side'. You trust YOUR witnesses...but you laugh at the witnesses of the OTHER religions.
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:34 PM   #7759
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Can one be spiritual, not believing your myths? What about the Eskimo who never heard of Christ? Or the Jews of the last 2000+ years who were murdered and persecuted by "Christians"? Jews who don't accept or care a whit about your "empty tombs"?

I see you are on your religious exclusivity rants again.
Can one be served from eternal damnation without believing the gospel of the kingdom?
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:37 PM   #7760
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You have no real proof that God exists either...don't deceive yourself. Other religious founders have left behind plenty of devoted "witnesses" who exhibited a lot of "faith", but, strangely enough...you find such proof "unconvincing" when it comes from the 'other side'. You trust YOUR witnesses...but you laugh at the witnesses of the OTHER religions.
That's because the "devoted witnesses" were found to wanting, not able to pass the the scripture tests set forth in Deuteronomy 13 and 18.

And, yes, I trust my witnesses for my witnesses are true; for God cannot lie.
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:42 PM   #7761
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There are two answers to that. First, they don't exist because the Christian religion did not spread like wildfire as Christians claim. They were a small, mostly unknown cult who, in modern terms, slipped under the radar. Few were educated and writing materials were expensive. No one had the time or interest in refuting the claims of a small Jewish/Greek cult who were only one of many small cults. No one refuted the existence of Hercules or Dionysus either.
Prove it. Scripture says it did spread like wildfire.

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Second, once Christianity became the official religion of the Roman Empire the Christians went on a centuries long book burning campaign. Possession of any anti-Christian book carried the death penalty. They even burned the library at Alexandria and murdered the librarian. That book-burning mob was personally lead by the Bishop of Alexandria. So the answer to "where are all the writings" is that the Christians burned them and murdered the writer.
But the Jews, centuries before the library of Alexandria existed, would have left some documents. Many extra-biblical documents have been found, but none that even question the validity of Jesus' existence, a crucified Messiah, or the resurrection of the Messiah.
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:42 PM   #7762
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That's because the "devoted witnesses" were found to wanting, not able to pass the the scripture tests set forth in Deuteronomy 13 and 18.

And, yes, I trust my witnesses for my witnesses are true; for God cannot lie.
God lies plenty. Didn't he tell prophet Isaiah that all the world's nations would bow down to Israel...and that all the nations that refuse to serve Israel would go to WASTE? Was that the TRUTH?
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Old 08-16-2018, 02:44 PM   #7763
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Please do.

By the way, how's your screenplay coming? Just asking.
If only Cecil were alive...

The posts are 5705, 16, 25 and 26. All written in early March.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:22 PM   #7764
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No, it doesn't. I didn't believe in God the first time I prayed to him. However, my prayer was sincere. I wanted to know if he was real -- if he really exists. Whereas you do not. That's the difference between you now and me then.
"Dear God. I don't believe in you but just in case you do exist please show me a sign."

Something like that?
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:26 PM   #7765
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"Dear God. I don't believe in you but just in case you do exist please show me a sign."

Something like that?
Close enough for government work... But again...I was sincere. I really wanted to know. You don't.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:28 PM   #7766
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God lies plenty. Didn't he tell prophet Isaiah that all the world's nations would bow down to Israel...and that all the nations that refuse to serve Israel would go to WASTE? Was that the TRUTH?
Specific chapter and verse, please.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:34 PM   #7767
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Close enough for government work...
So what was the sign?
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But again...I was sincere. I really wanted to know. You don't.
I was certainly sincere that day in Sunday School in 1956. See post #8 in Religion I.
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Old 08-16-2018, 03:45 PM   #7768
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So what was the sign?
I was certainly sincere that day in Sunday School in 1956. See post #8 in Religion I.
How old were you then? Maybe you weren't as sincere as you want to believe?

The sign was that he led me to a bible-believing church...whose pastor ended up leading me to the Lord. The church was a specific answer to an equally specific prayer.

There were other signs that bolstered my faith after my conversion, but they're long stories.
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Old 08-16-2018, 04:02 PM   #7769
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Can one be served from eternal damnation without believing the gospel of the kingdom?
Is your dramatic fire and brimstone the 11th commandment?

How come all the other religions you know so much about without atually knowing anything about, not cover your eternal amnation?

Hint: The death and resurrection of Jesus is purely metaphorical.
As is "hell.

As is the surviving thematic fragments of both the Old and New Testament. You turn mental somersaults attempting to justify imagery as real. Can you prove a rose by any other name smells as sweet?

Like trying to absolutely proof the Disney Dumbo can really fly

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Old 08-16-2018, 04:23 PM   #7770
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Prove it. Scripture says it did spread like wildfire.
Circulus in probando! A.K.A. circular reasoning. In any case it's your claim. The burden of proof is yours.

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But the Jews, centuries before the library of Alexandria existed, ...
When did the library exist?

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... would have left some documents.
Would they? How many plays did Sophocles write? Over 100. How many have survived? Seven! And Sophocles was a popular playwright. Why should the writing of some obscure writer questioning the beliefs of an obscure cult survive when best sellers did not?
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