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Old 10-25-2009, 01:40 PM   #76
GameTheory
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMeadow
Nice headline, by the way. Maybe the next time there's a murder the headline writer can write, "Overpopulation Problem Reduced."
He used the sneer quotes to indicate the true meaning.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quotation_mark#Irony
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Old 10-25-2009, 02:12 PM   #77
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Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
I have no idea how much these are or how these work but I'm sure this would be effective on BC days.

http://www.advertisingaerial.com/id12.html

Something like....Lower takeout or racing will die.....etc
We did a flyover of Santa Anita on "Big Cap" day during the Magna boycott in 2004. It cost $600 and we got 18 passes over the track for that amount. The banner (very large) simply said www.boycottmagna.com. The outfit was based at the Santa Monica airport. I can probably dig out contact info if anyone is interested and wants to contact me privately.
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Old 10-25-2009, 03:50 PM   #78
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Niko,
I've felt this way for some time. I'm just curious as to what is it about this particular straw that "broke the camel's back" for you? Why not the last two increments in New York takeout?
Indulto


I'd have to go through my old posts to find out when I actually started drifting away (which wouldn't be worth doing ), but it's been over the last year or two, I've just been worn down.

I've been fed up with some major facets of the game for some time, have expressed my opinion on the board in that regard and have expanded in other directions already.

I'm just hoping that this news is a big enough sign of the direction of racing for other people to stop betting for a while too-or curtail their activity to big racing days WITH full fields, the most fan friendly tracks like Keeneland or if they're relying on the income.

I don't bet enough to make a difference but if a lot "me's" stopped, that would make a difference.

Last edited by Niko; 10-25-2009 at 03:59 PM.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:02 PM   #79
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or curtail their activity to big racing days WITH full fields
Those are seemingly fewer and farther between.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:33 PM   #80
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Great post Barry, love the overpopulation comment, that got me to LOL.

Why won't one track or circuit lower takeout to 10 percent and just reap the benefits of hundreds (and hopefully thousands) of new customers?

Are all these different track owners 'in bed with each other' and they all collude to keep takeout rates in the 20/25 pct range?

Sure, we have had the odd experiment where Retama (or some other texas track) offered 10 percent pick 3s. Problem is, the pool is 4 grand.

I think that Pimlico offered 14 percent Pick 3s, but again, the pool sizes are miniscule, its not going to attract bettors to those pools.

If you are not a player of Pimlico (for example) you aren't going to spend a few hours capping their card so you can bet into one pick 3 pool at 14%. Its not worth it. But if they made all the pools in all the races 14%, than we're talking.
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Old 10-25-2009, 04:39 PM   #81
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsideThePylons-MW
I have no idea how much these are or how these work but I'm sure this would be effective on BC days.

http://www.advertisingaerial.com/id12.html

Something like....Lower takeout or racing will die.....etc
sounds good to me...we're $200 towards it, if we can get a few hundred more $$ in the next day or two, I'm sure it can be set up in time.
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:03 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niko
Niko,
I've felt this way for some time. I'm just curious as to what is it about this particular straw that "broke the camel's back" for you? Why not the last two increments in New York takeout?
Indulto

I'd have to go through my old posts to find out when I actually started drifting away (which wouldn't be worth doing ), but it's been over the last year or two, I've just been worn down.

I've been fed up with some major facets of the game for some time, have expressed my opinion on the board in that regard and have expanded in other directions already.

I'm just hoping that this news is a big enough sign of the direction of racing for other people to stop betting for a while too-or curtail their activity to big racing days WITH full fields, the most fan friendly tracks like Keeneland or if they're relying on the income.

I don't bet enough to make a difference but if a lot "me's" stopped, that would make a difference.
Allegedly 99% of us are non-whales and hopefully we still contribute 85% of handle, so the potential for having an impact exists, but as activists for change, we need to acquire the focus and dedication of the whales as players.

I used to play on most of the highest purse distribution days nationally. I still handicap those cards, but have only bet on a tiny fraction of them this year. The product quality is no longer what it was anywhere, and that makes it easier to keep my wallet in my pocket. It used to be hard to get me to forego a big race day for some other activity. Now its hard for me to get enthusiastic about most of the big races.
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:31 PM   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rrbauer
We did a flyover of Santa Anita on "Big Cap" day during the Magna boycott in 2004. It cost $600 and we got 18 passes over the track for that amount. The banner (very large) simply said www.boycottmagna.com. The outfit was based at the Santa Monica airport. I can probably dig out contact info if anyone is interested and wants to contact me privately.
It looks like 1/4 page x 1" ad in the Western DRF edition is also around $600, just for comparison sake.

Last edited by chickenhead; 10-25-2009 at 05:33 PM.
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Old 10-25-2009, 05:40 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Imriledup
Sure, we have had the odd experiment where Retama (or some other texas track) offered 10 percent pick 3s. Problem is, the pool is 4 grand.

I think that Pimlico offered 14 percent Pick 3s, but again, the pool sizes are miniscule, its not going to attract bettors to those pools.
This is one reason why they don't. All the screaming we do is lower takeouts, but then you have a few experiments like these and the pool sizes don't seem to change much. We yell that lower takeout will mean more handle, but when it happens, we yell something else, "the pools are too small."
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:13 PM   #85
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Count me in

I just donated $100 for "advertising". I trust the board to make the decisions as to where to spend it.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:16 PM   #86
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Circulation numbers

Quote:
Originally Posted by chickenhead
It looks like 1/4 page x 1" ad in the Western DRF edition is also around $600, just for comparison sake.
Make sure your review their circulation numbers for that edition before you jump into that pool. Also compare the price for nationwide coverage - might not be that much more.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:29 PM   #87
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One thing guys that may be stating the obvious, but don't forget to tell any horseplayer friends about this current situation in SoCal and about the HANA organization. Stupidly, I was pretty surprised how many at the Meadowlands have never heard of HANA the couple times I have been there. The time for a strong player movement is now.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:42 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBedo
This is one reason why they don't. All the screaming we do is lower takeouts, but then you have a few experiments like these and the pool sizes don't seem to change much. We yell that lower takeout will mean more handle, but when it happens, we yell something else, "the pools are too small."
Of course they don't change instantly. It needs be given time to bring in new money. Which is why rebates is the only way it is going to happen. Expanded rebates lowers effective takeout with no change to track's take leads to bigger handle leads to track lowering takeout to eliminate rebate. I certainly have no hope that tracks will permanently and significantly lower takeout on the most bet pools because they are smart enough to take the long view. Ain't gonna happen.
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Old 10-25-2009, 07:48 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBedo
This is one reason why they don't. All the screaming we do is lower takeouts, but then you have a few experiments like these and the pool sizes don't seem to change much. We yell that lower takeout will mean more handle, but when it happens, we yell something else, "the pools are too small."
Some anecdotal evidence ... when HOU lowered the rake on their pk-3 from 25% to 12% their pool size went up by 125%. This was for the meet. I can't back this up as I received this info verbally from an employee when I inquired as to the impact of the drop.
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Old 10-25-2009, 08:11 PM   #90
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Thanks Warren very much.

And thank you too Mike412.
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