Pimlico rebuild becomes reality

[bisket]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

LOLOL. The old Roach stompers.

You must have known some of us in the late 70's-80's-90's or been part of it.

I think you were a Pimlico guy.

You know too much. Hahaha.

Holding a shank in roach killers should be an OSHA violation
The most famous guy in roach killers would be Bob Turk. Disco Bob could be seen at Chaps on Pulaski Hwy, across from the upscale shoe box houses in Armstead Gardens. Disco Bob had a full dance card every Saturday night.

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I didn't know much of that early story.

I've been saying for a long time that imo the best formula for success going forward will be the tracks that can combine quality racing with it being a more generalized vacation destination where people go to get away. It requires more than just the track facility.

Places like Saratoga and DelMar are no brainers now, but there are other places that imo could find similar magic. Ironically, I think a place like Finger Lakes could be a huge success if a lot more money was put into it and it was timed right. Monmouth has potential near the Jersey shore. There are others. Some I think will never cut it.

I hate to be so laissez-faire about it all because I miss the bigger crowds and greater interest, but sometimes you have to adjust to the reality of the environment you are in. Maybe your industry is going to shrink and lose jobs, but something else will rise and create even more jobs and activity. The latter will only happen if you are spending those hundreds of millions of dollars wisely.

Oaklawn too

[castaway01]

Since Monmouth was mentioned, while it's been run great at times and terribly at others, they've tried a bunch of different things over the years to stave off the decline. They had massive purses one year and at times the casinos or the state have boosted purses to some degree. They've promoted weekend events and food truck festivals. Haskell Day is the one day they've successfully established as an "event" that still draws big crowds. And to management's credit, for the summer of 2023 Monmouth's handle went up 11% from 2022. But I think other than Haskell Day and Father's Day, huge crowds are not coming back to see live racing.

It's just that there is SO MUCH else to do at or near the beach in the summer, and now there are so many other more appealing forms of gambling. I don't think there's a simple solution to make crowds return to Monmouth or most other racetracks. Except for a half-dozen places, it's just not enough a part of the local culture (for those under 80) to be "a thing to do" for the casual fan.

[bisket]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Since Monmouth was mentioned, while it's been run great at times and terribly at others, they've tried a bunch of different things over the years to stave off the decline. They had massive purses one year and at times the casinos or the state have boosted purses to some degree. They've promoted weekend events and food truck festivals. Haskell Day is the one day they've successfully established as an "event" that still draws big crowds. And to management's credit, for the summer of 2023 Monmouth's handle went up 11% from 2022. But I think other than Haskell Day and Father's Day, huge crowds are not coming back to see live racing.

It's just that there is SO MUCH else to do at or near the beach in the summer, and now there are so many other more appealing forms of gambling. I don't think there's a simple solution to make crowds return to Monmouth or most other racetracks. Except for a half-dozen places, it's just not enough a part of the local culture (for those under 80) to be "a thing to do" for the casual fan.

Gimmick race meets in places that have other things to draw a crowd will be successful to a point. Jersey has a history with racing and their summer meet lives off a few racing days. Maryland lives off two racing days, Preakness and Balcj Eyed Susan day The difference between Maryland, Kentucky, and New York and these other gimmick meets is they have a history with racing prior to legalized mutual pools. That’s why they have the three most popular race days every year. There’s an infrastructure surrounding the sport other states don’t have. MD still has a thriving steeple chase season that started this week. New York racing has a larger population to live off of. What makes Saratoga so popular isn’t just the destination for a vacation. It’s a destination because of the history behind it. Del Mar is similar. Pimlico becoming a pleasant place to go to the track is a destination with the same history. Churchill Downs is a destination because of its history. The problem with Pimlico is 1st Racing made it the dump it is today. When Pimlico becomes a pleasant place to be again, its history will make it a destination again. I can’t tell you how many race fans Pimlico lost the day the power went out during the Preakness festival. They’ll come back.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by racenomics

Oaklawn too

Absolutely

I had a great time in town when I went to Oaklawn.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by castaway01

Since Monmouth was mentioned, while it's been run great at times and terribly at others, they've tried a bunch of different things over the years to stave off the decline. They had massive purses one year and at times the casinos or the state have boosted purses to some degree. They've promoted weekend events and food truck festivals. Haskell Day is the one day they've successfully established as an "event" that still draws big crowds. And to management's credit, for the summer of 2023 Monmouth's handle went up 11% from 2022. But I think other than Haskell Day and Father's Day, huge crowds are not coming back to see live racing.

It's just that there is SO MUCH else to do at or near the beach in the summer, and now there are so many other more appealing forms of gambling. I don't think there's a simple solution to make crowds return to Monmouth or most other racetracks. Except for a half-dozen places, it's just not enough a part of the local culture (for those under 80) to be "a thing to do" for the casual fan.

I hear what you are saying, but for me it's the opposite. I live near Belmont. The main reason I go to the Haskell is because I can stay on the Jersey shore and have a great long weekend of food and entertainment to combine with a couple of days of racing. My thinking is the same for Saratoga where the town is appealing, it's close to Lake George (for families), there's music at the Performing Arts Center, springs etc... Maybe MTH would have to try to combine the racing and shore in a better way or try to create a few more marquee races over time.

[rastajenk]

This has become an interesting read the last couple days. I kind of skimmed over this thread when it was introduced last month as just another Pimlico-is-a-problem topic devolving into The Benefits of Contraction, but the hands-on history and local color is good stuff.

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by bisket

Holding a shank in roach killers should be an OSHA violation
The most famous guy in roach killers would be Bob Turk. Disco Bob could be seen at Chaps on Pulaski Hwy, across from the upscale shoe box houses in Armstead Gardens. Disco Bob had a full dance card every Saturday night.

Yep. I thought you were a Baltimore/Pimlico guy.

Preakness week and day brought the hidden personalities out in many backside people.
Trainers, and others you might see with diaper pins on their pantlegs to attach standing bandages to the horses legs after training in the morning or holes in their sweaters normally but on Preakness day the were dressed like Sonny Crockett and Richardo Tubbs. Hahaha. Who by the way, showed up for a few Preakness's in full attire and they even walked through the grandstand in step together. I could hear the theme song in my head seeing that. Lol.

Used to say to myself when I saw those backside people dressed up, " Damn, he/she cleaned up well.

Oh the stories I could tell....

Appreciate the walk back in time Bisket.

[bisket]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

The problem horsemen faced with million dollar races was the money always left the state. The backbone of racing was doing all the heavy lifting for the big wigs.
It was a real catch-22.
That’s what made Md. Million so successful.
Summer racing also drastically reduced field size. Md. Started running in the summer and everyone else started running in the winter. They collectively shot one another in the foot.
Back in the day Bowie was totally packed on Saturdays IN THE WINTER.
Nobody could agree on anything and our HBPA couldn’t agree on what to serve for dinner much less any agenda. Once I was part of that, the whole underbelly was there for me to see. I was young and wondered, what the heck did I get in the middle of?

Your first sentence in this post says everything in a nutshell about why the state got involved and sided with the horseman. Larger purses just encourages money from outside the state to poach purse money from local farms and horseman. MD racing isn't, nor never was, on the same level as New York and Kentucky. We are for one weekend in May. Many of our farms were once owned by large financiers that were a large part of racing in New York. They are important to racing history in MD. They are the reason we have an infrastructure of not only thoroughbred, but other segments of competitive horse competition. Most of the people involved in this infrastructure are only a few miles from Pimlico. My point is this is why it’s beneficial for the state to invest in Pimlico. MD’s biggest celebration is Preakness. I know on the national scene it’s one race, but it’s a big thing for us. It’s worth it to us. Hopefully a rebuilt Pimlico will bring the crowds levels back to the event. Kentucky has put a lot of money into Churchill and it’s working for them. New York is in the middle of doing the same thing. I hope it works for them just the same as it works for MD.

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by bisket

Your first sentence in this post says everything in a nutshell about why the state got involved and sided with the horseman. Larger purses just encourages money from outside the state to poach purse money from local farms and horseman. MD racing isn't, nor never was, on the same level as New York and Kentucky. We are for one weekend in May. Many of our farms were once owned by large financiers that were a large part of racing in New York. They are important to racing history in MD. They are the reason we have an infrastructure of not only thoroughbred, but other segments of competitive horse competition. Most of the people involved in this infrastructure are only a few miles from Pimlico. My point is this is why it’s beneficial for the state to invest in Pimlico. MD’s biggest celebration is Preakness. I know on the national scene it’s one race, but it’s a big thing for us. It’s worth it to us. Hopefully a rebuilt Pimlico will bring the crowds levels back to the event. Kentucky has put a lot of money into Churchill and it’s working for them. New York is in the middle of doing the same thing. I hope it works for them just the same as it works for MD.

I also think that handle will increase for just regular days as the Pimlico brand is much stronger than Laurel’s, because they have marquee races.
I really hope they can increase attendance, because that draws new fans, that become the future of Maryland Racing

[Ruffian1]

Originally Posted by bisket

Your first sentence in this post says everything in a nutshell about why the state got involved and sided with the horseman. Larger purses just encourages money from outside the state to poach purse money from local farms and horseman. MD racing isn't, nor never was, on the same level as New York and Kentucky. We are for one weekend in May. Many of our farms were once owned by large financiers that were a large part of racing in New York. They are important to racing history in MD. They are the reason we have an infrastructure of not only thoroughbred, but other segments of competitive horse competition. Most of the people involved in this infrastructure are only a few miles from Pimlico. My point is this is why it’s beneficial for the state to invest in Pimlico. MD’s biggest celebration is Preakness. I know on the national scene it’s one race, but it’s a big thing for us. It’s worth it to us. Hopefully a rebuilt Pimlico will bring the crowds levels back to the event. Kentucky has put a lot of money into Churchill and it’s working for them. New York is in the middle of doing the same thing. I hope it works for them just the same as it works for MD.

Totally agree! Just hope they turn the grandstand and get rid of that shadow that casts across the last 1 /16th.
Plenty of room to do all that but I did hear that Sinai hospital wants to buy some land for more parking but that could be the unused space way beyond the far turn.
And two turf courses or one very wide one for plenty turf racing please.

The DC International was a fabulous event before the breeders cup came along. How great would something like that be to have reborn as a prep for the Breeders Cup Turf ?
Now I am dreaming .

[bisket]

Originally Posted by Ruffian1

Totally agree! Just hope they turn the grandstand and get rid of that shadow that casts across the last 1 /16th.
Plenty of room to do all that but I did hear that Sinai hospital wants to buy some land for more parking but that could be the unused space way beyond the far turn.
And two turf courses or one very wide one for plenty turf racing please.

The DC International was a fabulous event before the breeders cup came along. How great would something like that be to have reborn as a prep for the Breeders Cup Turf ?
Now I am dreaming .

Fall turf races would be a good local thing. New York and Kentucky already have turf preps that don't get a full field. We would have the Mid Atlantic to ourselves turf wise. That's why Laurel does well with them. I don't think a grade 1 level turf race would get a lot of potential runners. I think the one spot that could get runners is increasing the purse for the Pimlico Special. There aren't grade 1 races for older horses at a distance greater than 1 mile after the races in the middle east.

[racenomics]

Originally Posted by bisket

Fall turf races would be a good local thing. New York and Kentucky already have turf preps that don't get a full field. We would have the Mid Atlantic to ourselves turf wise. That's why Laurel does well with them. I don't think a grade 1 level turf race would get a lot of potential runners. I think the one spot that could get runners is increasing the purse for the Pimlico Special. There aren't grade 1 races for older horses at a distance greater than 1 mile after the races in the middle east.

How bout a New Year’s Day thing for Older fillies? Fall ya got the Joe Hirsch

[PhantomOnTour]

I'm excited to be returning to Baltimore for Preakness weekend this year for the first time since 2019.

[classhandicapper]

The problem horsemen faced with million dollar races was the money always left the state. The backbone of racing was doing all the heavy lifting for the big wigs. It was a real catch-22.

Ultimately you have to make a choice.

Do you want draw bigger crowds for marquee races but risk the purse money going to NY or other out of town trainers or do you want 2nd tier racing?

That's why I like the vacation destination model best. If people are in the area because it's an attractive vacation spot, you can try to make a day at the races one of the main entertainment options. As long at the quality of racing is pretty good and the facility attractive, the crowds should be better than in a non vacation destination area.