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07-30-2017, 12:34 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,190
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Worst Derby winner in modern time
has to be Always Dreaming. I think even Giacomo would beat him @1 1/4.
I can see it now, Always Dreaming retires next week: "He was a great champion. Can't wait to see his babies." -Todd Pletcher
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07-30-2017, 12:36 AM
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#2
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Mine that Bird, Giacomo, Super Saver, Nyquist, Orb...none of them accomplished anything after the Derby of note. So, at best, it is a tie so far and I only had to go back a short time.
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07-30-2017, 12:45 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Mine that Bird, Giacomo, Super Saver, Nyquist, Orb...none of them accomplished anything after the Derby of note. So, at best, it is a tie so far and I only had to go back a short time.
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I could argue all of those horses, except super saver who i think got hurt at least ran a decent race here or there. Mine That Bird and Giacomo both hit the board in the Preakness.
Always Dreaming, not sure I have seen such a sudden reversal of good form after his Florida and Ky Derby efforts.
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07-30-2017, 12:51 AM
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#4
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GMB@BP
I could argue all of those horses, except super saver who i think got hurt at least ran a decent race here or there. Mine That Bird and Giacomo both hit the board in the Preakness.
Always Dreaming, not sure I have seen such a sudden reversal of good form after his Florida and Ky Derby efforts.
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Hitting the board in the Preakness is a pretty superficial argument to be honest. Super Saver didn't run after the Haskell, but didn't do much before it either.
Maybe Always Dreaming won't be much or loves a wet track, but I don't see how he can be any worse than the others I mentioned.
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07-30-2017, 01:09 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio
Posts: 5,289
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Getting totally destroyed is not what I am buying for a prep race! We got til November though. Today just adds to the intrigue.
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07-30-2017, 01:48 AM
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#6
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyHorseplayer
Getting totally destroyed is not what I am buying for a prep race! We got til November though. Today just adds to the intrigue.
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He got beat a half length for second. Not a good effort, but totally destroyed?
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07-30-2017, 02:10 AM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
He got beat a half length for second. Not a good effort, but totally destroyed?
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It's pretty bad when a closer of no distinction draws off. I know you would expect more too CJ. Anyway I'm not feeling this too deeply as impactful. We'll see how they do do next. I just think it's funny when they do get beat decisively!
Last edited by CincyHorseplayer; 07-30-2017 at 02:11 AM.
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07-30-2017, 02:16 AM
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#8
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@TimeformUSfigs
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CincyHorseplayer
It's pretty bad when a closer of no distinction draws off. I know you would expect more too CJ. Anyway I'm not feeling this too deeply as impactful. We'll see how they do do next. I just think it's funny when they do get beat decisively!
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If the winner had a poor record I'd be more concerned, but since he never tried dirt he was a wild card. He sure got bet like he had a big shot!
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07-30-2017, 03:09 AM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cincinnati,Ohio
Posts: 5,289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
If the winner had a poor record I'd be more concerned, but since he never tried dirt he was a wild card. He sure got bet like he had a big shot!
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8-1 was in the realm of action. I wouldn't have bet him. Just sayin 4.5 and change in front with 4 for scraps in back. Less than a prep in my eyes brother!
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07-30-2017, 08:22 AM
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#10
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Veteran
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 9,047
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cj
Mine that Bird, Giacomo, Super Saver, Nyquist, Orb...none of them accomplished anything after the Derby of note. So, at best, it is a tie so far and I only had to go back a short time.
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Mine That Bird ran big in the Preakness though.
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07-30-2017, 09:32 AM
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#11
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Just another Facist
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Now in Houston
Posts: 52,786
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Monarchos
__________________
WE ARE THE DUMBEST COUNTRY ON THE PLANET!
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07-30-2017, 09:42 AM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,012
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Giacomo, Super Saver and Orb were some of the best for me cause I cashed on them but noticed from this short list that most of these who won the Derby and not much after were Derby's run on wet/sloppy tracks.
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07-30-2017, 10:22 AM
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#13
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,858
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I think the Derby is more luck or circumstance rather than talent theses days. 20 starters is good for having shots at a good price but makes the race, IMHO, irrelevant 90% of the time. The Preakness is the most relevant of the three, again OMHO.
Except, of course this year.
__________________
Who does the Racing Form Detective like in this one?
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07-30-2017, 10:35 AM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dahoss9698
Mine That Bird ran big in the Preakness though.
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he was a neck behind the greatest filly of all time, who ran the greatest race of her life..thats what the internets say 
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07-30-2017, 11:14 AM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: Missouri
Posts: 2,190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bennie
Giacomo, Super Saver and Orb were some of the best for me cause I cashed on them but noticed from this short list that most of these who won the Derby and not much after were Derby's run on wet/sloppy tracks.
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You had Giacomo-thats beyond a great call. The Orb year I almost took down that big super-that was the Golden Soul year. I dropped Orb off the top line for another horse-maybe Oxbow-can't remember. I really liked Palice Malice that year (hit the pick 6 on Belmont day). I did have Super Saver-one of my few Derby winners
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