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Old 10-30-2009, 11:08 AM   #31
ddog
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no way to spin that??? you just did.

The simple fact is that as more and more people can't afford ins and will get left out, the costs to those that can afford to pay will go up.

THe only counterforce to that will be outsourcing.

Same as all other industry have done.

You will love it when all your choices need a translator to read back your chart to them.

Count on it.

Invest in it.
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Old 11-03-2009, 09:15 AM   #32
hcap
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Originally Posted by hcap
We have had dozens of threads about health care already. I have posted many, many links to costs vs outcomes of industrialized nations throughout the world. We do not score that well in terms of cost/effectiveness. I think my coining of the phrase "sub group of cons on this board" explains why you guys continue to ignore the evidence.
More on costs..




http://www.motherjones.com/kevin-dru...-spend-so-much

* We pay our doctors about 50% more than most comparable countries.
* We pay more than twice as much for prescription drugs, despite the fact that we use less of them than most other countries.
* Administration costs are about 7x what most countries pay.
* We perform about 50% more diagnostic procedures than other countries and we pay as much as 5x more per procedure.

Underlying all this is the largely private, profit-driven nature of American medicine, but regardless of how you feel about that, the main lesson here is how hard it would be to seriously bring these costs down. We can jabber all we want about incentives and greed and systemic waste, but the bottom line is that if we want to do anything more than nip around the edges, we'd have to pay doctors and nurses less, pay pharmaceutical companies less, pay insurance companies less (or get rid of them entirely), pay hospitals less, and pay device makers less. That's a lot of very rich and powerful interests who will fight to the death to prevent any serious cost cutting, and it's why Obama and the Democrats in Congress have largely chosen to buy them off instead.

The chart below comes from this study. Read it.

http://www.academyhealth.org/files/2...ay/Jensene.pdf

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Old 11-03-2009, 08:12 PM   #33
Steve 'StatMan'
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Originally Posted by Tom
Do all those cost per patient stats take into account all the FREE care we hand out to illegals every day? All the routine care that is handed out at emergency rooms where costs are higher? Let's see some stats on how many of those countries welcome everyone to use their system with no restrictions.
Should we then move to those countries, or just deport all the illegals here to there?
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Old 11-03-2009, 08:42 PM   #34
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I believe it does include all illegals, as well as those from other countries (who spend less and have fewer super gadgets and fewer, if any, lawsuits) who come and pay for their medical care. The law says all must be treated in emergency rooms. (I only assume that one who is critical in emergency room is then admitted and cared for.)

It isn't only federal dollars that are spent. Individuals pay, some because they choose to carry no insurance, those who have no insurance for financial reasons, insurance companies pay, states pay.

I could be wrong, but I think I read that health care costs frequently include loss of productivity when workers are ill.
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Old 11-03-2009, 10:53 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Steve 'StatMan'
Should we then move to those countries, or just deport all the illegals here to there?
Shuttle them right on through and up to Canada.
They have far better HC than we do.
Might give zilly something to do in his spare time.
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