Questions about losing a shoe

[sonnyp]

real simple process. trimming the foot, and getting those idiot thorobreds to stand still is the tough part.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by sonnyp

real simple process. trimming the foot, and getting those idiot thorobreds to stand still is the tough part.

I am curious what the difference in cost is for a set of shoes harness vs t-breds. Our farriers charge about $140.00 a month. Glue ons for one of ours was $400 from Ian, do harness use glue ons too?

[5k-claim]

Originally Posted by sonnyp

shoeing is a very interesting part of the harness game and most people have no idea what goes into it.

farriers are in business to make and shoe horses. they'll tack a shoe on for free but they'd rather make another which is usually a pair or set cause of the wear on the other shoes......and expect a bill

It does sound really interesting.

Speaking of that wear on the other shoe, I give my farrier a hard time because just like a piece of equipment that breaks down just after the warranty period, he always manages to shoe so that one will fall off at exactly 34 days (well not exactly, but that is the number that I always use to complain about). Much earlier than that, and I am twisting his arm and blaming him for it, but he knows that if it makes it that far then even if the horse could slide for another 10 days or more it will have been long enough that I will just say, "Oh alright.... go ahead and do it." This way, he can get in at around the 34 day mark, as opposed to stretching out to 40+ that the horse may be able to do. Even shaving just 10 days off gives him an extra shoeing every 4th or 5th time.... those guys are crafty. (I don't use a simple calendar month- I wait for the hoof to grow and the shoe to move.)

As much grief as I give him (what else is there to do?), he definitely earns his money doing that job, as it is the most back-breaking in the business... I couldn't do it.

.

[sonnyp]

Originally Posted by onefast99

I am curious what the difference in cost is for a set of shoes harness vs t-breds. Our farriers charge about $140.00 a month. Glue ons for one of ours was $400 from Ian, do harness use glue ons too?

that's funny, i knew Ian when he was rubbing harness horses at the meadowlands. he started to experiment with copper stitches on quarter cracks, then incorporated the fiberglass and then kept working on an epoxy to "glue" shoes onto frail, shelly feet.

i can't answer your question since i quit back in 1990. i have no idea what it costs now, but i will email a friend who still has harness horses and post his response here. i'm sure its sky high like everything else in the horse business. the harnes shoes start with a basic set of steel shoes. full or half round half swedge, and everything is plus,plus (borium,bars etc).

as a trainer at the meadowlads of harness horses in late 80's early 90's
i was getting $50/day & 5%. i paid grooms, feed, some vitamins. the owners(hopefully) paid that, shoeing, tack, vet, shipping, stake fees etc.

i was not one of these trainers who just sends out the bills. i saw what the owners were spending on a monthly basis in addition to their initial investment.

assuming a harness horse was in training 10 months of the year, that horse had to earn $50,000 a year to make it even worth the owner's or my efforts. i profited about $1.50/day/horse on the day rate. i insisted my owners place their horses competitively, cause my profit came from the 5% the horses earned.

i would look at that tote board at post time and i could see if we did a good job classifying. if our horse had two numbers for odds and there wasn't a red flashing light in between, we were in the wrong race.

ill try to get that shoeing info foe you

[Mr_Ed]

A few weeks ago St. Elmo Hero, undefeated in 25 lifetime starts, lost a shoe at the start of his race at Woodbine.

He lost by a nose. Replay shows he obviously wasn't the same horse down the stretch.

Since that race, he went against better.......and ran away from them.

He crushed the horse that beat him by a nose, Art Professor.

He beat Lisagain, who in his previous start, beat world record holder, Hypnotic Blue Chip.

As the old 90's commercial went..........it's the shoes.

[sonnyp]

Originally Posted by Mr_Ed

A few weeks ago St. Elmo Hero, undefeated in 25 lifetime starts, lost a shoe at the start of his race at Woodbine.

He lost by a nose. Replay shows he obviously wasn't the same horse down the stretch.

Since that race, he went against better.......and ran away from them.

He crushed the horse that beat him by a nose, Art Professor.

He beat Lisagain, who in his previous start, beat world record holder, Hypnotic Blue Chip.

As the old 90's commercial went..........it's the shoes.

i've been posting that shoe loss is much more of a factor for harness than thorbred, although, i wouldn't want my thorobred to throw a hind shoe.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by 5k-claim

...My guess for the trainers would be out of 100 cases... roughly about 0/100.

I would have agreed with you until I had a rocket ship with one foot that was a disaster. We tried every normal repair job and eventually assembled some wild composite of aluminum spider pads and no-vibes carved up every which way so that the "bad spot" was protected but could still be accessed for daily work. It cost me plenty of money and trial and error time to put this thing together, so when the thing came whizzing off one day, I was horrified that it was gone. I walked the outer rail, found it, and had it tacked back on.

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by sonnyp

losing a front shoe is not that big a deal. some horses race with no front shoes by design.

losing, or springing a shoe, certainly was not a big factor in big brown's belmont performance if that's what you're referring to.

Wouldn't that depend if corrective work by the Farrier with that shoe was
an issue. We know BB's hooves were in need of some adheremce.
With that said ,I don't blame his poor performance entirely on throwing his shoe.

[off'nclear]

In the good old days (Chicago, 1959) when hospitals typed more info on birth certificates (I think eveything but my weight) , I CAREFULLY examined new daughter's certificate for spelling, etc and signed it. However, before it was registered (or entered) into the County official stud book, someone changed it by hand (just the letter "a" to "u") from farrier to furrier. I think he knew that fur came on animals,

[sonnyp]

Originally Posted by nijinski

Wouldn't that depend if corrective work by the Farrier with that shoe was
an issue. We know BB's hooves were in need of some adheremce.
With that said ,I don't blame his poor performance entirely on throwing his shoe.

i'll give you that every situation is unique.

bb's shoe was sprung. it didn't appear the nails were sticking into the "quick" of the foot.

i have no idea what caused that disasterous performance and i don't believe dutrow does either.

allow me to say this and i'd like some feedback from fellow horsemen, owners etc. on the board who have been up close to racehorses.

i think the more you've been around and worked with horses, the less likely you are to bet on them. i say this, because you come to the realization that any one performance is really unpredictable. i've had horses that were feeling sooooo good i feared they would hurt themselves in their stalls. then, i've had old "warhorses" so sore we had to put their feed tubs on the ground next to them cause they really didn't want to get up and eat.

guess what ? the one snorting and sqealing would go out and race like crap and the old war horse would "go to work" and win.

go figure. and on top of the unpredictable performance of your horse, how many ways are there to blow a race ? let me count the ways !

really, unless you are tons, TONS the best, winning a horse race requires a "perfect storm".

would love to get some feedback.

[5k-claim]

Originally Posted by johnhannibalsmith

I would have agreed with you until I had a rocket ship with one foot that was a disaster. We tried every normal repair job and eventually assembled some wild composite of aluminum spider pads and no-vibes carved up every which way so that the "bad spot" was protected but could still be accessed for daily work. It cost me plenty of money and trial and error time to put this thing together, so when the thing came whizzing off one day, I was horrified that it was gone. I walked the outer rail, found it, and had it tacked back on.

Ha! I don't blame you one bit for retrieving it, my friend. People who can decide to just turn out for 6 months are at such an advantage. But when everything else is finally (and/or mercifully) going good except for just that... one... pesky... issue...

OK, so that makes it 1/100.

.

[sonnyp]

Originally Posted by off'nclear

In the good old days (Chicago, 1959) when hospitals typed more info on birth certificates (I think eveything but my weight) , I CAREFULLY examined new daughter's certificate for spelling, etc and signed it. However, before it was registered (or entered) into the County official stud book, someone changed it by hand (just the letter "a" to "u") from farrier to furrier. I think he knew that fur came on animals,

the term "blacksmith", one who works with "black" metals, is often misused, myself included, for farrier, one who shoes horses.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by 5k-claim

.. People who can decide to just turn out for 6 months are at such an advantage. .....

.

Well, this was between several such brief vacations. It was chronic and probably the best it had ever been in the short time that I had him. Actually, he ran one more time after that day, won a crappy stake at a little-league track, set a faux-world record that lasted a month, was turned out again... and some fancy dude came along and bought him from the owner as a saddle horse... A pretty cool ending for a real cool horse... one of my favorites.

[off'nclear]

I just read my first...and obviously forgot to include the Father's line of work section of the certificate. He was a farrier. He's just recently learned to blacksmith a bit Obviously I don't relate written any better or more thoroughly than I speak.

[johnhannibalsmith]

Originally Posted by off'nclear

I just read my first...and obviously forgot to include the Father's line of work section of the certificate. He was a farrier. He's just recently learned to blacksmith a bit Obviously I don't relate written any better or more thoroughly than I speak.

I knew what you meant