Small tracks

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

____________



how sharp could a plunger be if he bets $5K into a tiny win pool and crushes down his own payout to peanuts if his pick wins_________?

when he could have bet the same $5K at Belmont or Santa Anita and it would have had little effect on the payout


methinks not too sharp



.

You have to use your head when you play small tracks. I rarely will make a win bet at one and play smaller amounts on pick 3's which are my favorite bets. No $10 2x2x3's or the like. I don't remember where, but I hit a pick 3 at a rinky dinky track a half dozen years ago and did a "what the hell?" when I saw the pay out as I did not look at the will pays. I played a $2 ticket with quite a few horses. I had 3 $20+ horses and was short of a sign up. I then realized I took down the whole pool.


After that whenever I was thinking of trying out a new track. I would look at the size of the pools.

[46zilzal]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

What year was your Pomona debut? I loved that place, I first went in 1980.

With Southern California not opening OTBs till the mid 80's. I had a half dozen years enjoying the novice money the fair brought in as admission was free after you paid at the fair gate. We would go hang out in the beer garden watching college football and discussing the races before first post.

Same year a inaugural meeting of Oak Tree at Santa Anita, 1969

They ha a twelve race card: 2 standard breds,2 QH, and 8 thoroughbred races.

I have worked now a TWO standard bred meetings and STILL do not understand how to play them.MOSTLY has to do with the driver

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Same year a inaugural meeting of Oak Tree at Santa Anita, 1969

They ha a twelve race card: 2 standard breds,2 QH, and 8 thoroughbred races.

I have worked now a TWO standard bred meetings and STILL do not understand how to play them.MOSTLY has to do with the driver

I first went to the track in 1975, I was 14, step dad liked the quarters at Los Al. The weird thing about harness racing, I was using it as a second income, betting at Hollywood Park, Los Al, and Fairplex, from 1979-1986 or so. Nothing special just hit in the high 30's percentage wise on win bets. Then all of a sudden my win percentage dropped like a rock and kept declining where I flat out gave up betting the pacers and trotters. I haven't made a harness bet in a dozen years, when I hung it up my win bet % had sunk to the mid teens.

[Half Smoke]

____________


I used to go to Rosecroft when I knew nothing about racing

I guess there were some sharks there but it seemed like nobody really knew anything - that they were all just guessing - lots of silly comments

it was a real fun and homey atmosphere - I liked it a lot

Rosecroft has contracted and has many fewer race days now and is not very popular

but I looked it up in Wikipedia and was astonished to find this:


"Rosecroft Raceway, nicknamed the "Raceway by the Beltway" for being close to Interstate 495, is a harness racing track in Fort Washington, Maryland. It first opened in 1949 and was owned by William E. Miller, a horse trainer and breeder. Rosecroft quickly became Prince George's County's political and social center, drawing thousands of people there each racing day. In the early 1950s, average attendance was more than 7,000 per day. "


I never knew it was ever big time - but apparently it was for a while



.

[Half Smoke]

_____________


yesterday - Mahong Valley - race 8 - was really just bored and goofing off

bet a very strong fave at 3/5 just before they broke -

he was bet way down very late and paid $2.10 across the board

it was laughable - I'm glad I'm not one of the big plungers or a CAWs or whoever it is that routinely bets horses way down very late like that

if I make a serious bet and get a payout like that on a win bet I might put my fist through my monitor


__________________(~:/



.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

_____________


yesterday - Mahong Valley - race 8 - was really just bored and goofing off

bet a very strong fave at 3/5 just before they broke -

he was bet way down very late and paid $2.10 across the board

it was laughable - I'm glad I'm not one of the big plungers or a CAWs or whoever it is that routinely bets horses way down very late like that

if I make a serious bet and get a payout like that on a win bet I might put my fist through my monitor


__________________(~:/



.

Congrats, nice hit,.


At Los Alamitos decades ago, it could have been when they actually had an Orange County Fair Meet. It was an Arabian race, slow as hell but pretty reliable for me. Watching close to post time my horse was bouncing from even to 6-5. I am standing by the windows plenty of tellers, short to no lines. Horse drops to even, and I bet. It is a 7f race, one lap out of the chute. I am trying to hold back a couple large beers, a couple restless horses cause a slight delay. Off at 4-5 my horse as expected, not being asked my horse is on the rail and has 3 lengths on the field in the first 1/8th crossing the wire the first time. I can no longer hold it so I sprint to the can and listen to the call while taking a quart+ pee.



The horse had opened up 6 lengths by the head of the stretch, but starts to fade. I finish my business then run up the stairs to see a couple horses asses from the 1/16th pole hitting the wire, even from where I was.


Photo sign goes up and I watch the replay. I think my horse won by the length of a cigarette butt, but who knows. The SOB went down to 1-9,
the photo is taking forever. Finally they put my number up! Wohoo, I got $2.20, not $2.10, made $30 on a $300 bet. That was too much sweating to make pizza & beer money.

[Ahorsewithnoname]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Congrats, nice hit,.


At Los Alamitos decades ago, it could have been when they actually had an Orange County Fair Meet. It was an Arabian race, slow as hell but pretty reliable for me. Watching close to post time my horse was bouncing from even to 6-5. I am standing by the windows plenty of tellers, short to no lines. Horse drops to even, and I bet. It is a 7f race, one lap out of the chute. I am trying to hold back a couple large beers, a couple restless horses cause a slight delay. Off at 4-5 my horse as expected, not being asked my horse is on the rail and has 3 lengths on the field in the first 1/8th crossing the wire the first time. I can no longer hold it so I sprint to the can and listen to the call while taking a quart+ pee.



The horse had opened up 6 lengths by the head of the stretch, but starts to fade. I finish my business then run up the stairs to see a couple horses asses from the 1/16th pole hitting the wire, even from where I was.


Photo sign goes up and I watch the replay. I think my horse won by the length of a cigarette butt, but who knows. The SOB went down to 1-9,
the photo is taking forever. Finally they put my number up! Wohoo, I got $2.20, not $2.10, made $30 on a $300 bet. That was too much sweating to make pizza & beer money.

Lol great story... I remember the first time i hit and exacta betting blind when i knew nothing at all about racing at the time. $1.00 exacta with the two favorites boxed and it paid about $4.00

[Half Smoke]

________________


way back when I started betting horses I knew almost nothing
I started reading a bunch of stuff to get ideas

somebody, somewhere posted that a great system for the tri was to take the fave out and box the next 7 horses - a $1.00 box costs $210

sounded good to me

I did it about 4 times at Laurel - no internet then - and I hit on 2 of them - one paying about $1,200, and one paying back about $2,200

I thought I had found the Holy Grail

but I wasn't 100% sure

so , I went to the library and tracked it with about 100 back issues of The Washington Post and realized my Holy Grail was a huge loser

such is life


.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

________________


way back when I started betting horses I knew almost nothing
I started reading a bunch of stuff to get ideas

somebody, somewhere posted that a great system for the tri was to take the fave out and box the next 7 horses - a $1.00 box costs $210

sounded good to me

I did it about 4 times at Laurel - no internet then - and I hit on 2 of them - one paying about $1,200, and one paying back about $2,200

I thought I had found the Holy Grail

but I wasn't 100% sure

so , I went to the library and tracked it with about 100 back issues of The Washington Post and realized my Holy Grail was a huge loser

such is life


.

I know you are older than me and you started out making $210 bets? Is your last name Kennedy? When I started out max bet for a win bet was $30 and I rarely went that deep. Most were $10-$20, exactas were $12, 3 horse $2 box. Daily double $20 to cover all combinations. California did not offer anything else back then WPS, exacta and an early and late DD. Some races were WPS only.

[Half Smoke]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

I know you are older than me and you started out making $210 bets? Is your last name Kennedy? When I started out max bet for a win bet was $30 and I rarely went that deep. Most were $10-$20, exactas were $12, 3 horse $2 box. Daily double $20 to cover all combinations. California did not offer anything else back then WPS, exacta and an early and late DD. Some races were WPS only.

I had a fat discretionary bankroll from card counting at blackjack which I had decided to give up - was getting bored with it - I had logged thousands of hours at BJ tables

I thought winning at racing would be pretty easy - I thought I was competing against some not too smart old guys - I read Tom Ainslie's book - which is imo a great one - and thought I knew a lot

I got a very rude awakening

I had no idea how complicated and difficult it is to win consistently

needless to say my bet size rocketed downwards very quickly

but I never gave up - the challenge of it has always been so compelling and I have never gotten bored with it as I did with BJ

.

[Inner Dirt]

I dabbled in card counting, as good as I thought I was I kept getting discovered and the overhead cut into profit. I was once kicked out of a casino that only had two BJ tables when up only $300 nearly forty years ago. That was at a place called Kactus Kates in Stateline Nevada. It was only open for 8 years and I was elated when they bulldozed the place.


I would usually hang out at the low denomination tables hoping the blend of novice players would keep the dealers distracted. Also if the table started thinning out and then there was a needy female player or a couple that were
ready to leave, I would kick she or them a $25 chip a piece saying I like company and conversation. I would also try to keep sneaking chips into my pockets. If I had a bad run and got low I would pull out cash instead of chips.
I of course tipped the dealers anytime I hit a double down, BJ, or hit on splitting.



It wasn't like I was dumping huge bets, I normally played $25-$200, but I would go as low as $5 screwing around. Most I ever made in a day was $3,000. I probably don't have more than 100 card counting days under my belt and haven't done it in 20 years. I never counted how many $25 chips I gave away but it was a lot. I am very good with numbers, computing and remembering, that skill is declining as I age, but back in the day I could easily keep the count and how many aces played despite the chaos I created at the table.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by Half Smoke

I had a fat discretionary bankroll from card counting at blackjack which I had decided to give up - was getting bored with it - I had logged thousands of hours at BJ tables

I thought winning at racing would be pretty easy - I thought I was competing against some not too smart old guys - I read Tom Ainslie's book - which is imo a great one - and thought I knew a lot

I got a very rude awakening

.

Your story aligns nicely with my own experience.

One difference was that I was brought up in illegal gaming and was a (not-very-good) card mechanic by age 17.

That made me much harder to cheat. When the cheating is removed from the game, it starts to look like playing on your dining room table. LOL

In the mid-70s, I won $600,000 playing a 1 to 3 spread. Over a 3-month period, I was barred everywhere in Las Vegas.

I woke up broke and went back to work in gaming.

Discovered computers.
Taught myself to program.
I remember saying that I'd have racing beaten in 6 months.
Took me 9 years to actually become profitable.
Even then, while playing full-time, the income was only $2-3k per month.

The game has not gotten easier but can still be beaten.

[edit]
I knew Richard Carter (Tom Ainslie) really well. In the early '90s he'd visit a friend of his in Reno and we'd always find time for a meal.

He was a fine man.

He was not a winning player and much of his stuff simply did not withstand statistical analysis, although it all made sense.

However, it was all we had and so many of us got a start with his books.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Dave Schwartz

In the mid-70s, I won $600,000 playing a 1 to 3 spread. Over a 3-month period, I was barred everywhere in Las Vegas.

Since you preceded me you are the one that caused my grief. I thought I had the world's greatest plan to fly under the radar. Your streak probably got everyone on heightened alert and they stayed that way. Congrats on that $600k anyway. How much were you betting and what limit tables were you playing?

[Dave Schwartz]

It actually started with $30.

Well, it started many times with $30, playing sessions with $1 units at The Horse Shoe.

I played a Fibonacci of sessions...

$1
$2
$3
$5
$8
etc.

When I got to $5 I'd head to the strip because of the better rules (stand on soft 17, split & double, etc.).

Whenever I lost, I'd take 2 steps back.

I always seemed to lose at either $5 or $8. (If I lost for $8, the next session would be for $2 and back downtown.)

This went on for months.

I'd play every night after work.
(Worked at the Golden Nugget.)

Over time I improved.
But the big change for me was to stay downtown.

At Binion's, they knew I counted and, as long as I stuck to "our agreement" everything was fine with them. Those people had balls and really couldn't care about some $5 grinder.

(1 to 3 max spread, but did allow parlaying to a 2nd hand)

Note that I was a very conservative player.
2 units off the top.
If I won and the deck was rich, I'd parlay to 4 units.
If I won again, I'd go to 6 units.
If I won and the deck was still rich, I'd spread 2 hands of 6 units. (Yes, it ate up cards and rarely could I do this when there were more than a couple of people at the table.)

If I lost off the top, and the deck was rich, my max bet was 2 units.

VERY conservative.

Because I was so conservative, it was hard for me to have these big scores. But it was also hard for me to blow back a nice run of cards.

Later, when I really studied Advanced Shuffle Theory, I came to understand why this was so important to my play. But this was about a year earlier.

Then IT happened.

I hit this dizzying streak, spread over like 8 to 10 days where I won 16 sessions in a row!

SIXTEEN!

I did follow the Fibo sequence, but conservatively.

Imagine...
$1 +30
$2 +60 = +90
$3 +90 = +180
$5 +150 = +330
$8 +240 = +570
$12 +360 = +930 (Did not go to $13; would have pissed off the dealers.)
$20 +600 =+1,530

$20 +600 (Played the session again and withdrew the $600)

$25 +750

Mind is not clear after that, but eventually got to black checks and went to:
$100
$200
$300
$500

But every 4th session was a replay + withdrawal.

As I recall, I netted right around $16,000 from the 16 sessions.

Then I made a new strategy - playing greens as my base - and bet percentage of session bankroll. Not sure when I switched to the percent of session BR. Might have actually been during the Sweet Sixteen, as I came to call it.

Through all of this, I played exclusively at Binion's. They didn't bat an eye until I was about $25,000 ahead.

Then they apologetically removed me.
Even then, they told me I was always welcome to come by for a free meal. (Rarely did I ever take them up on it.)

After that I also picked up a couple of playing partners. One was recognized as the 2nd best player in the world by the two guys at Binion's I had the most respect for: Jack Newton (graveyard shift mgr) and Bucky Buchanan (swing main pit boss).

Jim Smith was that 2nd best in the world.
Aside from being a near-perfect card counter (as was I), he was the best I ever saw at following cards through the shuffle.

I recall a time when we were playing black checks at the Four Queens and he announced, "Oh, let me cut!"

Then he leaned over and said, "All the aces in the 1st hand."

There were 4 snappers.
Unfortunately, the dealer had one of them - underneath.

In my own play, I used Revere's Advanced Point Count. (BTW, he did not write his own book. It was written by a fellow named Jim Mildon.)

I kept separate side counts of aces, 8s, 5s, and 2s,3s & 4s. (Those last 3 were collective, not individuals.)

Yes, I did the same thing against multiple decks.

[Inner Dirt]

Thanks for sharing Dave. I have stayed downtown, but not often. As for Nevada I played in Laughlin the most. The comps from playing horses and table games were probably 10X of Vegas.