Jockey suspended 30 days

[Tom]

Originally Posted by jay68802

And, only 30 days for the jockey. This is the type of thing that should carry a lifetime ban. You have to wonder if anyone involved happen to cash a bet on this.

Lifetime ban not enough, both scumbags should face animal cruelty charges at minimun. Trash like these people don't deserve anything but jail.
Where the hell was the the track vet?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by jay68802

Don't you think it is time to stop this trainer from running horses? Like, today.

Time to boycott TP until they do.

[jay68802]

I do not do this that often. I sent this email.

I urge others to do the same.

To: cgoodwin@azgaming.gov

Subject: Juan Pablo Silva

I am writing this to voice my opinion. Due to recent accusations against this trainer, and the breakdown of Bali Brava at Rillito Downs, this person should have his trainer license suspended immediately. The safety of the horse's under his care and the jockeys should be made a priority. I also believe that any horse owned by Tijuana Racing Stables, the owners of both Juror and Bali Brava, should not be allowed to race until this matter is fully investigated.

[Boomer]

Originally Posted by jay68802

I do not do this that often. I sent this email.

I urge others to do the same.

To: cgoodwin@azgaming.gov

Subject: Juan Pablo Silva

I am writing this to voice my opinion. Due to recent accusations against this trainer, and the breakdown of Bali Brava at Rillito Downs, this person should have his trainer license suspended immediately. The safety of the horse's under his care and the jockeys should be made a priority. I also believe that any horse owned by Tijuana Racing Stables, the owners of both Juror and Bali Brava, should not be allowed to race until this matter is fully investigated.

A couple of things. It seems the State appointed vet did not give this horse a pre-race examination and based on the ridiculous class drop, that should have been a no brainer.


Tijuana Stable and Silva ship to Mountaineer in the spring so they will have a home at the Mountain.

[The_Turf_Monster]

These are stories that you can repeat over and over again down the class ladder. Stop betting these tracks if you don’t want this to exist

[Boomer]

Jockeys listen to trainers or they don't get mounts.


The primary blame here goes to the trainer followed by the track vet by . Jock thrown under the bus and taking the entire blame is a shame.


BTW as a harness fan, a big part of every race card are drivers being told by trainers to "go easy". The nature of class relief depends on horses finding their correct class in non claiming races. The nw of XXX in last 4 or 5 races condition book promotes no trys.



Even the top drivers in the game gets it and will listen to the trainers instructions.


Part of the game and part of handicapping.


Point here not being what anyone attached to the Turf fiasco should get off the hook since we were dealing with a lame horse that was only eneterd to fool some sucker into a claim. But the point is, there is far more blame to go around than the jock.

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by ranchwest

I understand the indignation, but who would bet a 1/20 on an 88% claim drop?

Ding,Ding,Ding. Particularly true, after running second the race before the 88% class drop.

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by ranchwest

Still a red flag of a worthless horse.

Tom Brohamer devoted a chapter in the book "Modern pace handicapping" 30 years ago about these "negative class drops". My favorite chapter in a handicapping book of all time.

[cj]

Originally Posted by porchy44

Tom Brohamer devoted a chapter in the book "Modern pace handicapping" 30 years ago about these "negative class drops". My favorite chapter in a handicapping book of all time.

Like most things, the game has changed...a lot. I'm not advocating this horse was worth betting, far from it, but you have to figure out the economics of the drop with the big changes in the claiming tag to purse ratio and the elimination of jail rules most places. A lot of drops that were negative when that book was written no longer are.

[mountainman]

Originally Posted by cj

Like most things, the game has changed...a lot. I'm not advocating this horse was worth betting, far from it, but you have to figure out the economics of the drop with the big changes in the claiming tag to purse ratio and the elimination of jail rules most places. A lot of drops that were negative when that book was written no longer are.

Insightful post. In some cases, though, suspicious droppers outperform their brethren from back in the day not so much because they are sounder and better intended, but because modern chemists can, for awhile, override mounting physical issues. Also, high-percentage horsemen less often wait too long to drop.

Players, I think, often misinterpret these instances in assuming a negative droppers big win means the horse was "ok" or a purse has been stolen. More often there ARE indeed ominous infirmities that sooner than later will compromise performance and leave bettors holding the bag. I've seen it a thousand times.

[ranchwest]

Originally Posted by cj

Like most things, the game has changed...a lot. I'm not advocating this horse was worth betting, far from it, but you have to figure out the economics of the drop with the big changes in the claiming tag to purse ratio and the elimination of jail rules most places. A lot of drops that were negative when that book was written no longer are.

You make a valid point, generally. But this horse should have been able to win on much less of a drop had it been sound. Dropping approximately 88% is overkill, even in today's economics.

[TonyK@HSH]

Laying a bad horse in (to be claimed) is certainly not a recent phenomenon. I'm very happy that this TUP incident has been brought to light. At most tracks now adays this would not occur due to tighter vet inspections and claiming stipulations regarding horses that break down during the race. Maybe now, the Arizona racing commission will take appropriate action that minimizes the chances of this occurring again.
From a personal perspective, I witnessed a similar scenario occur in 2007 while I was a partner in MCR Racing LLC. We owned a mare named Royal Brandy. She got a little sour in Oct 2006 and was given a break from racing until the spring of 2007. She went back into training and won her 3rd race off the rest on June 23, 2007 from which she was claimed for $16k by Ebert Estrada. She was a great claim and won 4 of her next 6 races all for values far greater than she was claimed for. During that time, training duties were turned over to Ramon Preciado.
Then suddenly on 12-31-2007 she was entered for a claiming tag of $12k. This was a huge drop considering she had won easily for $35k at the end of Oct. I was approached by several trainers regarding her physical condition most of which wanted to know the partnership was going to reclaim her. We were very suspicious of the drop and had no interest in this 'high risk' claim.
On 12-31, after being bet down to 3-2 odds, she was pulled up immediately after the start traveling no more than 50yrds. Fortunately she was not claimed but tens of thousands were lost on her at the betting windows.
There is no place for this in the business and it's a bit discouraging to know that some jurisdictions have still not addressed this issue which puts animal and rider in danger.

[ranchwest]

Thanks for that perspective, Tony.

[Thomas Roulston]

Interestingly, the bridge-jumpers were conspicuous by their absence in this race: The three in-the-money horses returned $3.20, $10.40, and $8.40 to show, in a field of six - about one-tenth of what one would figure that they'd pay.