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Old 12-13-2019, 05:57 PM   #1
Afleet
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O'neil headed to Dubai & Oaklawn

Trainer Doug ONeill has finalized plans to send a string of
horses not just to Dubai but to Oaklawn Park. Between the two
racing venues, ONeill will be pulling upwards of 30 horses out of
Santa Anita early next year and told the TDN he would not be
doing so if not for his concern about the way that the racetrack
is being run.

https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co.../tdn191213.pdf
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Old 12-13-2019, 06:02 PM   #2
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OK.


I cry uncle.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:09 AM   #3
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No question, more than any other track I've noticed, Santa Anita is trying to gauge which way the wind is blowing and then reacting in a kind of "what does everybody want to hear" manner. A track that should be taking a leadership role is acting like a little kid that just doesn't want to get in trouble.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:21 AM   #4
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The trainers and connections are basically saying that we can't run with these new drug rules. Just proving what we, as handicappers, have suspected all along. Sad. Instead of acknowledging the problems they are facing, they are running away. As handicappers, we need to keep supporting Santa Anita and any other track that follows there leadership.
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Old 12-14-2019, 12:35 AM   #5
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The trainers and connections are basically saying that we can't run with these new drug rules. Just proving what we, as handicappers, have suspected all along. Sad. Instead of acknowledging the problems they are facing, they are running away. As handicappers, we need to keep supporting Santa Anita and any other track that follows there leadership.
We may end up with very little racing in Southern California, unless the industry backs Stronach up. (Churchill's just announced plan to ban 2 year old Lasix is a good sign though.)
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Old 12-14-2019, 01:06 AM   #6
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We may end up with very little racing in Southern California, unless the industry backs Stronach up. (Churchill's just announced plan to ban 2 year old Lasix is a good sign though.)
Agree, and the same group wants to ban the sacking of pain meds also. That happens to be why the trainers are leaving Cali. Will they have the balls to go through with it? That remains to be seen.
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Old 12-16-2019, 05:48 PM   #7
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2 horses went down at Los Al Sunday and it's all over the news. Santa Anita is in a Cant win situation. The only ride that will be left in the jockey room will be Mike Smith.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:14 PM   #8
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The trainers and connections are basically saying that we can't run with these new drug rules. Just proving what we, as handicappers, have suspected all along. Sad. Instead of acknowledging the problems they are facing, they are running away. As handicappers, we need to keep supporting Santa Anita and any other track that follows there leadership.
I wouldn't EXACTLY give Santa Anita any "leadership" awards.

The point is that with a centralized body with a commish, there would be no place to run to.

They are fixing the wrinkles on the elephant instead of fixing the elephant. this is no different than managing race horses with piecemeal injections for inflammation......a lame horse is eventually MORE LAME. Sooner or later there has to be a FRAMEWORK to oversee racing, with all the right things in place. not one or 2.

I'm 100% against lasix but it will still take decades to see what happens when we stop breeding bleeders, etc. This should just be *part* of an overall plan...not the hallmark of one...


I'm becoming very impatient......but during my "wait time" I'm also becoming cynical. And I am NOT one given to conspiracy theories. How do I even KNOW that SA isn't in some kinda plan with a real estate company to have high rise high density condos rising on the very spot? This reminds me of movies I've seen LOL I just don't know what they are doing anymore. They seem like either they are knee-jerking at this point now that they know their problems have reached critical mass and could no longer sweep it under the rug. I imagine plenty of other tracks will be in same situation.......or could be.

Last edited by clicknow; 12-16-2019 at 08:19 PM.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:19 PM   #9
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2 horses went down at Los Al Sunday and it's all over the news. Santa Anita is in a Cant win situation. The only ride that will be left in the jockey room will be Mike Smith.
The current situation in California is toxic so I'm not surprised to see them leave. Unfortunately, 3 and 4 horse races will probably be the norm here.Might have to end up consolidating the meets into Saturdays and Sundays the way its going.
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Old 12-16-2019, 08:28 PM   #10
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Oaklawn doesn't have 2 year olds racing.

But they did pay a 10% bonus above and beyond the winner’s purse share to any horse that won a race without being administered the drug on raceday in 2015. If horsemen are all about the $$, then this seems attractive. Jack van Berg I know was all for it. He didn't drug his 2 year olds at Remington. He testified to Congress in 2008, But as he noted, if an owner thinks their horse didn't win because of no lasix, they will just pull the horse and put with another trainer, and possibly one who abuses drugs.

“The only way you’re going to change the darn thing is to invest enough money to have the most sophisticated testing there is to detect all drug use, and then trainers will have to follow the rules when they take out a stall application and sign their license......Back in my time, years ago, when you got a bad test, you [were sent packing] down the road. Nowadays they just get an injunction and keep racing. They don’t do anything to them; they give them a little slap on the wrist.”


“I testified before Congress in New York [in 2008] and there hasn’t been anything done since then,” Van Berg said. “The bad part about it, when I was up there testifying, some of the same people who were abusing the system then are still doing [illegal] things now. Either you make a rule or you don’t. I feel sorry for the horses, and what they have to go through.”

(bolding is mine)


OTOH, if you are racing known *bleeders*, you can't just take them off lasix. Therein lies the problem. They shouldn't be ON the track in the first place. Hong Kong rates them and if you have a higher level bleeder they just aren't seen as fit to be *race horses*....other careers for them instead.

Last edited by clicknow; 12-16-2019 at 08:41 PM.
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Old 12-16-2019, 10:24 PM   #11
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How do I even KNOW that SA isn't in some kinda plan with a real estate company to have high rise high density condos rising on the very spot?
The problem with conspiracy theories re: Stronach is that if he wanted to close tracks and redevelop them, he's had about 20 years of opportunities to close tracks and redevelop them, and hasn't done it. He definitely wants to close Pimlico, but that's the thing- when he actually wants to close a track, he tells you.

The theory behind "closing tracks and redeveloping" is that operating the racetrack loses money and therefore you need to get yourself into a position as soon as possible where you can close a real estate transaction and then close the track. That's what Churchill did with Hollywood Park. If you keep operating for decades, it sort of defeats the purpose (plus, real estate crashes do happen, even in nice neighborhoods, and you don't want to get into a position where you are trying to time the market).

No, Stronach is actually trying to stay open. He realizes that if Santa Anita (and to a much lesser extent Golden Gate, but he owns that track too) is going to survive any sustained attack by the critics of racing in California, it needs to get out in front of problems and be perceived as progressive and willing to take on the sacred cows of racing, whether it is trainers like Hollendorfer or the Lasix issue.

Now he may, indeed, fail and then have to close the track. I'd say that there's a significant likelihood that 10 years from now, there is no racing at Santa Anita, either because an initiative banning the sport passes, Stronach's tough anti-doping policies result in a severe horse shortage that prevents the track from running, or the powers that be realize what has actually been true for 25 years- that California racing would work better with one circuit, not two.

But it's not due to any conspiracy. What you are seeing is an attempt by a very savvy racetrack owner to keep the sport going against long odds.
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Old 12-17-2019, 03:16 AM   #12
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I wouldn't EXACTLY give Santa Anita any "leadership" awards.

The point is that with a centralized body with a commish, there would be no place to run to.

They are fixing the wrinkles on the elephant instead of fixing the elephant. this is no different than managing race horses with piecemeal injections for inflammation......a lame horse is eventually MORE LAME. Sooner or later there has to be a FRAMEWORK to oversee racing, with all the right things in place. not one or 2.

I'm 100% against lasix but it will still take decades to see what happens when we stop breeding bleeders, etc. This should just be *part* of an overall plan...not the hallmark of one...


I'm becoming very impatient......but during my "wait time" I'm also becoming cynical. And I am NOT one given to conspiracy theories. How do I even KNOW that SA isn't in some kinda plan with a real estate company to have high rise high density condos rising on the very spot? This reminds me of movies I've seen LOL I just don't know what they are doing anymore. They seem like either they are knee-jerking at this point now that they know their problems have reached critical mass and could no longer sweep it under the rug. I imagine plenty of other tracks will be in same situation.......or could be.
Understand your thinking, I feel the same way. As far as leadership goes, TSG changed the rules on lasix and drug stacking in Cal. They also were involved in forming the Thoroughbred Safety Coalition. Racing is facing a bill before Congress, that they do not want passed. And this safety coalition might be the start of a centralized body for this sport. Now racing has done this before, and nothing ever happened because the group they started had no real authority. It was also not wanted by the trainers and owners associations. That was the real killer. With the way things are now, we are starting to see a change with the trainers and owners. Some have realized that what is happening in California is the same thing that is happening everywhere else, it just is not as publicized. The funny thing is, is that the trainers that are abandoning California racing now, are just putting off having to adjust to the change in drug rules. (At least that is my hope)

Now will racing do this the right way? Will they go through with the lasix ban? Implement drug rules that stop stacking? Enforce these rules with a punishment that eventually can stop the cheaters from cheating? Horse players have every right to be cynical, and doubt that they will. Because racing, so far, has proven that they do not want to make the hard changes. Just look at how they handled steroids. But I for one see a little hope, and as a handicapper will do what I can to support the tracks that try to change.

Last edited by jay68802; 12-17-2019 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 12-17-2019, 11:53 AM   #13
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The problem with conspiracy theories re: Stronach is that if he wanted to close tracks and redevelop them, he's had about 20 years of opportunities to close tracks and redevelop them, and hasn't done it. He definitely wants to close Pimlico, but that's the thing- when he actually wants to close a track, he tells you.
I don’t know enough about the current corporate structure/control of TSG. I don’t have any fears of Papa Frank looking to develop Santa Anita. But a) does he currently have controlling interest; and b) even if he does, does Santa Anita’s fate hang on the remaining lifespan of an 87-year old?
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:27 PM   #14
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I don’t know enough about the current corporate structure/control of TSG.

There is a new shot-caller at stronach group.




Quote:
TDN: You have joined a management team that already has some high-profile executives. Two that come to mind are Tim Ritvo and Aidan Butler. With your hiring, what is the pecking order at the Stronach Group? Are you the No. 1 person?

CF: Well, let’s not confuse who’s number one. I think it’s quite clear that Belinda Stronach is number one and she has the reins of the whole company, which is a much broader enterprise than just the racing operation and gambling. But my job was to come in at the top of the pecking order, as you call it, with respect to the racing and gaming operations and so that’s where I sit.
https://www.thoroughbreddailynews.co...-craig-fravel/
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Old 12-17-2019, 12:40 PM   #15
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I don’t know enough about the current corporate structure/control of TSG. I don’t have any fears of Papa Frank looking to develop Santa Anita. But a) does he currently have controlling interest; and b) even if he does, does Santa Anita’s fate hang on the remaining lifespan of an 87-year old?
Stronach has diminished influence, but what I said can be said equally about his company.

Everything they do looks like a company that is trying to make money presenting horse racing, not a real estate venture.
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