NorCal maniac gunman

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Clocker

This is a web site that sells a CNC machine that can mill an 80% receiver into a working model. The machine is listed at $1675 plus $100 shipping. It is not clear if other accessories are needed, so I just guessed around $2000.

https://ghostgunner.net/products/ghost-gunner

You got me. I have never seen such a contraption. It obviously is a machine specifically designed to do simplistic work on receivers and serves no other purpose. Looking at it and what it is priced at I doubt it's life expectancy is very long and it probably isn't very accurate. I don't even know what you would call that thing. It is the machine equivalent of a pet rock. A novice would be impressed, someone like me thinks it is a joke. A novice without any machining skills would struggle to operate it, it is probably such a piece of crap it would probably baffle the highly skilled. I am guessing any rave reviews on that thing are all shills that work for the manufacturer.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

You got me. I have never seen such a contraption. It obviously is a machine specifically designed to do simplistic work on receivers and serves no other purpose. Looking at it and what it is priced at I doubt it's life expectancy is very long and it probably isn't very accurate. I don't even know what you would call that thing. It is the machine equivalent of a pet rock. A novice would be impressed, someone like me thinks it is a joke. A novice without any machining skills would struggle to operate it, it is probably such a piece of crap it would probably baffle the highly skilled. I am guessing any rave reviews on that thing are all shills that work for the manufacturer.

None of which contradicts the original point, which is that people are making unregistered guns in their homes. This is merely one example of how it can be done, and it appears to work. There are lots of other machines and methods.

I have seen nothing to indicate that legislators or law enforcement are even thinking about the issue yet. (Sorry to use "legislators" and "thinking" in the same sentence.) Under current law, at least at the federal level, it is not illegal in and of itself to make a gun. It is illegal to sell such a gun without a license, and it appears to be illegal to own one if you are otherwise legally prohibited from buying one.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Clocker

None of which contradicts the original point, which is that people are making unregistered guns in their homes. This is merely one example of how it can be done, and it appears to work. There are lots of other machines and methods.

I have seen nothing to indicate that legislators or law enforcement are even thinking about the issue yet. (Sorry to use "legislators" and "thinking" in the same sentence.) Under current law, at least at the federal level, it is not illegal in and of itself to make a gun. It is illegal to sell such a gun without a license, and it appears to be illegal to own one if you are otherwise legally prohibited from buying one.

You are assuming people can make accurate, durable guns in their garage. I am on the other side of that argument. The average Joe might make something that can fire a bullet, but it will be nothing more than a 21st century zip gun. Admittedly the only gun parts I make are firing pins and it takes a $75,000 machine and years of experience to make those at high quality and repeat ability. Believe what you want, you admitted you know nothing about the process, but seem to want to argue with me, a person who knows quite a bit about how things are made.

[davew]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

You are assuming people can make accurate, durable guns in their garage. I am on the other side of that argument. The average Joe might make something that can fire a bullet, but it will be nothing more than a 21st century zip gun. Admittedly the only gun parts I make are firing pins and it takes a $75,000 machine and years of experience to make those at high quality and repeat ability. Believe what you want, you admitted you know nothing about the process, but seem to want to argue with me, a person who knows quite a bit about how things are made.

I think 'assemble' is a more accurate term. I could probably go to NAPA and get enough parts to assemble a vehicle that moves.

[jocko699]

Originally Posted by davew

I think 'assemble' is a more accurate term. I could probably go to NAPA and get enough parts to assemble a vehicle that moves.

I agree with this. 2 of my AR-15's I assembled. I purchased the uppers and lowers from different providers and assembled. I put a scope on one and just a sight on the other. Saved a lot of money compared to my other 2 that came fully assembled.

[Tom]

Did you get a chainsaw bayonet for them yet?

[jocko699]

Originally Posted by Tom

Did you get a chainsaw bayonet for them yet?

Not needed for the zombie apocalypse

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

You are assuming people can make accurate, durable guns in their garage.

I never even hinted at the matter of "accurate, durable", and I am not arguing about the process.

My point was simply to state that contrary to the beliefs of some, there are people in this country making unlicensed, unregistered guns in their basements, garages or small shops that are capable of actually shooting real ammo. I offered one example of a machine that some are apparently using to actually do that. There are many other tools and processes discussed on the web, which I also know nothing about, but which also produce real guns.

The quality of the guns produced remains to be seen. But given the wide variety of ingenuity and skills of Americans, I would assume that they range from crappy to near professional.

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Clocker

I never even hinted at the matter of "accurate, durable", and I am not arguing about the process.

My point was simply to state that contrary to the beliefs of some, there are people in this country making unlicensed, unregistered guns in their basements, garages or small shops that are capable of actually shooting real ammo. I offered one example of a machine that some are apparently using to actually do that. There are many other tools and processes discussed on the web, which I also know nothing about, but which also produce real guns.

The quality of the guns produced remains to be seen. But given the wide variety of ingenuity and skills of Americans, I would assume that they range from crappy to near professional.

That thing is a toy, it uses 1/4" end mills, which is the machining equivalent of digging a swimming pool hole with a shovel. Maybe you can understand this, it would be like using an easy bake oven to make a multi-tiered wedding cake. You could do it, but it would be a teaming pile of useless crap. It is a novelty item, I even went to the website for a good laugh. I also noticed all the concerns about people making guns with 3-D printers. 3-D printers are used to make mock ups and prototypes, they don't produce a sturdy finished product. If you did manage to make a functional gun with a 3-D printer it would be able to take all the stress of a plastic squirt gun. Go ahead and believe what you want, you are quite gullible.

[davew]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

That thing is a toy, it uses 1/4" end mills, which is the machining equivalent of digging a swimming pool hole with a shovel. Maybe you can understand this, it would be like using an easy bake oven to make a multi-tiered wedding cake. You could do it, but it would be a teaming pile of useless crap. It is a novelty item, I even went to the website for a good laugh. I also noticed all the concerns about people making guns with 3-D printers. 3-D printers are used to make mock ups and prototypes, they don't produce a sturdy finished product. If you did manage to make a functional gun with a 3-D printer it would be able to take all the stress of a plastic squirt gun. Go ahead and believe what you want, you are quite gullible.

How much is needed to drill a couple holes? they are not manufacturing a spaceship from raw materials.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by davew

How much is needed to drill a couple holes? they are not manufacturing a spaceship from raw materials.

He is fixated on that one machine that I found at random, that I have no knowledge of, but which appears to be able to finish an 80% receiver so that it can function as a gun, no matter how poorly.

I don't know and I don't care how well it works. My only point is that people are making guns on their own.

And it appears, to a rank amateur like me, that you are correct and that there are a lot of people, using a lot of different methods and tools, who are making unlicensed and unregistered guns.

Do a You Tube search on "machining 80% lower receiver" and you will find dozens of different instructional videos showing different tools and different methods to make an AR-15 lower receiver.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Go ahead and believe what you want, you are quite gullible.

I believe that many people are making functional unlicensed, unregistered guns, largely on their own. Can you refute that?

[Inner Dirt]

Originally Posted by Clocker

I believe that many people are making functional unlicensed, unregistered guns, largely on their own. Can you refute that?

They aren't "making guns." It would be like saying you made a computer, because you changed a hard drive. They are pretty much just assembling parts. Completing an 80% lower receiver is a novelty. The end user didn't really make anything. Read the article again. It implies any hack can make a gun from scratch in a couple hours, which is BS, that is my point.

[Tom]

Semantics.
They are ending up with guns.

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by Tom

Semantics.
They are ending up with guns.

Unregistered guns, which was the point, and the only reason for making a distinction. Semantics have real world consequences under the laws of Big Brother.