Players continue to walk away from the game.

[Brisk Urging]

@niicoooo2 I can’t win $ consistently long term. Closed @TwinSpireslast month and
@Xpressbet today. No ADW for me, first time in 20 years. Modern Games
@BreedersCup Fountain of Youth @GulfstreamPark & Lezcano
@TheNYRA
,etc., etc., etc, make it easier to walk away. ✌️❤️ to all my friends.

I know Nico personally sharp guy.Beychock,David F,Garret Skiba,some of these guys have won huge $$$ in tourneys all decided to walk.


They have all decided to walk away from the game.Im sure others have cutback handle though the numbers show handles on the rise.



Its a hobby for me bet little win alot cant get hurt still a great game.

[Brisk Urging]

https://twitter.com/jackkim36/status...db0QaezJ-az5rA

[Bustin Stones]

What we do not know is how much of that increased handle is owned by new handicappers who bet for amusement and how much is driven by newer syndicates using AI to minimize the low hanging fruit opportunities. But, if one is walking away because the game got tougher, that says more about you than the game.

[classhandicapper]

This is a tough game.

Beating it used to require that you be sharper than casual players by enough to overcome the take.

Now it's about being sharper than computer modelers and all the other sharp players giving away insights and horses on TV, social media, podcasts etc..

It's not easy to be sharper than other sharp players using the same data, tools and insights they are, at least not often.

Still, if people that claim they are winning players are dropping out because of drugs, cheating, race fixing, high take etc... I'm going to have call BS. These problems have been around since I first started in the game decades ago. If anything, we are on the verge of correcting some of it.

[burnsy]

There are so many reasons . It’s an open market, all gambling is becoming legal. There’s competition at every corner now. The legal and cheating issues does not help at all. And , no matter what people say it’s harder when the fields are smaller and less competitive. When you do hit, how you supposed to make more money? And the product becomes watered down and quite frankly boring. The game almost lives in “ fantasy land” with the Casino revenue and people cry the blues when a track closes. But what are you gonna do? Deny reality forever? You got your build up to the Triple Crown (preps), the Triple Crown , your Summer Niche meets and the Breeders Cup. That’s pretty much the only time the public even sniffs. People get all caught up with handle but does it really matter if a small amount of people are responsible for much of the handle? Of course it does matter. This game needs to smarten up and take the proper spot on the Totem Pole or it’s just gonna slowly degrade even more. Bull shit controversy like we see all the time is definitely doing them no favors either. They race at times some these joints should not even be open . I watch and it’s almost comical cause I think , “who the hell is betting this crap? “ and people won’t even admit it, like many things, they’d rather lie to themselves.

[metro]

Originally Posted by Brisk Urging

@niicoooo2 I can’t win $ consistently long term. Closed @TwinSpireslast month and
@Xpressbet today. No ADW for me, first time in 20 years. Modern Games
@BreedersCup Fountain of Youth @GulfstreamPark & Lezcano
@TheNYRA
,etc., etc., etc, make it easier to walk away. ✌️❤️ to all my friends.

I know Nico personally sharp guy.Beychock,David F,Garret Skiba,some of these guys have won huge $$$ in tourneys all decided to walk.


They have all decided to walk away from the game.Im sure others have cutback handle though the numbers show handles on the rise.



Its a hobby for me bet little win alot cant get hurt still a great game.

How long did Beychok stay away? A week? A month?

.....and well said ClassHandicapper!

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

This is a tough game.

Beating it used to require that you be sharper than casual players by enough to overcome the take.

Now it's about being sharper than computer modelers and all the other sharp players giving away insights and horses on TV, social media, podcasts etc..

It's not easy to be sharper than other sharp players using the same data, tools and insights they are, at least not often.

Still, if people that claim they are winning players are dropping out because of drugs, cheating, race fixing, high take etc... I'm going to have call BS. These problems have been around since I first started in the game decades ago. If anything, we are on the verge of correcting some of it.

SHARP POST

[davew]

Players continue to walk away from the game.



Is this something new? If you look at the daily handle and take a quarter to a third away EVERY DAY, it starts adding up to a HUGE chunk of money. There are less fish in the pool and sharks are eating sharks.

The same probably is true for horse ownership. How fun would it be routinely spending much more than you get back in purses?

The market and industry is mature and declining. Consolidation and decline will continue ... even as 'regulations' are added to 'help'.

[MJC922]

1- gamblers as a group have many more options now.

2- the maybe I'll get lucky today crowd, the test your luck today crowd has largely moved their action to casino gaming. Makes sense to me. I don't care for it myself but I'm not into the for-a-day stuff. I think it's tough to get these people back for more than just derby day tbh.

3- the older generation raised with racing as a staple is passing away (sadly).

4- the newer generations have little interest in racing, perhaps that can change but it has to be seen as having integrity and after that problem has been addressed (if it's even possible to address it in any kind of timely manner) it has to be seen as having as good or better potential for profit than other sports which they already do have both an interest in and a working knowledge of.

5- more people than ever may also have less income to throw around. I know for me personally raises where I'm employed are something like 2% or so and with increasing health care costs, fuel costs etc, I'm honestly making substantially less money than I did even five years ago. I'm sure I'm not alone in that.

In fact even income taxes have gone up substantially for me. I'm at the point now where I have to set aside hundreds per month so I don't owe thousands per year. Child support is also huge for some of us divorced guys. In NYS we pay until they're 21. That's big, with a middle class income you end up taking home minimum wage. The reality is many people are living week to week and costs are spiraling up so fast the money just isn't there to risk.

[Bustin Stones]

Are these demographics true for North America only or for the entire world? Horse racing in Asia seems to be prospering.

[Parkview_Pirate]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

This is a tough game.

Beating it used to require that you be sharper than casual players by enough to overcome the take.

Now it's about being sharper than computer modelers and all the other sharp players giving away insights and horses on TV, social media, podcasts etc..

It's not easy to be sharper than other sharp players using the same data, tools and insights they are, at least not often.

Still, if people that claim they are winning players are dropping out because of drugs, cheating, race fixing, high take etc... I'm going to have call BS. These problems have been around since I first started in the game decades ago. If anything, we are on the verge of correcting some of it.

Do you believe that the increased competition in the betting pools is the sole reason for the game getting tougher? It's a big factor, but not as bad as the cheating, IMHO. Years ago an owner and trainer could break even or just lose a little, with tax write offs helping a lot. Now those are gone. Costs have gone up, and while purses have gone up as well, I don't think they've kept pace. Thus, the incentive to cheat becomes greater. It's gone from an affordable hobby for owners and players to a cash drain.

Cheating has always been part of the game, I'll agree with that. But the lack of policing has led to an environment now that's just crushing the daily players, and racing just can't compete with other forms of entertainment when it's such an uphill climb to start. 35 years ago I'd see one or two shady races a week. Now it seems like half the races are unbettable in terms of value, and the remaining half have a high percentage of hanky panky....

The future isn't looking to bright.

[delfman]

I have always considered myself to be a huge horseplayer. I'd handicap for hours on end, late into the early mornings sometimes.
simulcasting was the beginning of the end for our sport.
It's like the housing bubble from 15 years ago. Boom then bust.
when simulcasting hit the market back in 91' (I think), It was BOOM
we are now feeling the aftereffects of that BOOM.


I'm not nearly as big of a player as I used to be. I concentrate more on DFS nowadays. NFL and PGA primarily.


I would love for racing to get it's head out of it's ass, so that I can come back to the game that I truly love. At this point though it is a waste of my time and $ to pursue it full-time. I am not remotely scared of Whales or sharks or CAW players or syndicates.
I am scared of the cheating.
Until they can come up with a way to fight back against all of the cheating that is going on, I'll remain essentially on the sidelines.


and yes, I've known cheating was going on ever since I took up this game seriously. But back then the racing product made it easier to ignore this fact.
the racing product of today sucks. I could handicap every single race on a Saturday from 10 or so different tracks and find a very small amount of races that are worth wagering on.
Besides, to make any $ in this game you need to be a dedicated full-timer. I spend a lot of my time these days golfing and handicapping DFS.


It's not just 5 horse races either that is making the racing product suck. A lot of the time it is the races themselves. Even if they have 8 or 9 horses. If all of the horses in a race came out of the same last few races, I mean COME ON! who wants to play that shit.

So I guess what I'm saying is that a lot of the races carded these days are unplayable.

[lamboguy]

instead of complaining about drugs, takeout, breakage, and the after bell wagers that are coming in and out of the pools. you should just concentrate your efforts on winning. if this game is not a question of how much you want to pick up, then you need to take a hike and find a different game that is more suitable to your needs.

there ain't nothing going to be done to stop all the problems we all know exist. so live within the context of what the game is, or stop complaining and move on.

[delfman]

the type of cheating that I am most scared of is not the drugging, IMO, drugging/doping, etc...
I am sure there are new ways to dope horses every week that can go undetected. Those situations occur in big $ races.
I'm afraid of the collusion's with the owners, trainers, jockeys, etc... to fix outcomes of races to cash tickets.
purposely running the 3/5 shots out of the supers or high fives.
I wouldn't even doubt that track officials aren't in on it.

[rastajenk]

No, track officials (not to mention O/T/J's) are not 'in on it.' There are too many natural checks and balances and too many people with opposing self-interests for your wild imaginary fantasies to come true.

If you're a loser, it's not because the system is rigged against you.