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Old 11-07-2010, 09:33 PM   #31
nijinski
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJofSD
And, the point is what?

Yes, the hind quarters slipped out from under the horse and it fell hard on its near shoulder, fracturing it.

Trying to make a point about the relative benefits and detractions of dirt v. plastic dirt is one thing, but, to offer up the loss of Rough Sailing is really off base.
DJ it always breaks my heart when a horse loses their life during a race , it's a horror . I already answered to this "elsewhere" when someone said there
there were no breakdowns the last few years and bashed Churchill. I was
just mentioning in referemce to surface and that it could happen on any surface , not just dirt . Sorry , but I did not mean it to offend or make light of a tragedy .
I probably should have stated that .

Last edited by nijinski; 11-07-2010 at 09:34 PM.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:12 AM   #32
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Ya'll are stupid.God made dirt,and dirt don't hurt...

No more even playing field but what the centuries have given.

There is a question over dirt.Stupidity has reached it's nexus when intelligence makes it's stand against plain dirt.

.Really??Really?
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:30 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJofSD
And, the point is what?

Yes, the hind quarters slipped out from under the horse and it fell hard on its near shoulder, fracturing it.

Trying to make a point about the relative benefits and detractions of dirt v. plastic dirt is one thing, but, to offer up the loss of Rough Sailing is really off base.
Why, because perspective would be a disadvantage?
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:55 AM   #34
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Perspective as a disadvantage -- I will have to remember that one!
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Old 11-08-2010, 08:20 AM   #35
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Originally Posted by CincyHorseplayer
Ya'll are stupid.God made dirt,and dirt don't hurt...

No more even playing field but what the centuries have given.

There is a question over dirt.Stupidity has reached it's nexus when intelligence makes it's stand against plain dirt.

.Really??Really?
He made grass, too.
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Old 11-08-2010, 04:38 PM   #36
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He made grass, too.
And those 2 are a beautiful thang!!
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:07 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by Pell Mell
For all the talk about different surfaces, Blame and Zen proved that great horses can run on anything.
Take the human component, opinions, money, preferences, etc. out of the equation and I think you just nailed it.

There are enough omni-surface runners that have convinced me that what you say is true.

I personally buy real sheepskin slippers, and real wool or cotton fabrics to wear, eat veggies I grow myself, and have real-wood decking and fencing, is that mother nature knows best.

However, modern materials have their place, and there are just too many instances where I would defer to the newer modern high-tech "fake" stuff --- teflon, ripstock nylon, polymers, ceramics, alloys, polys, etc. Goretex rocks!

Whether or not "fake" has a place in racing is yet to be determined, IMHO.

Scientifically, nobody has proved anything beyond the shadow of a doubt about racing surfaces, as the fake is too new to have collected enough data, and ditto truly reliable and scientific statistics/data on all 3 surfaces. If you put together a real crack team of talented scientists who had NO conflicts of interest, and enough real data to even start a real study, I think we might get somewhere.

Anyone who says they have the answers without a bullet proof SERIES of studies (which will take a long time) is just groping in the dark, in terms of real science.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:20 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by Alacrity
Well after a few years of sampling the injuries and whatnot...it does appear synthetics are safer than dirt and do save horses lives which was the point of them being brought to America. Dirt was the only thing being used in the 1900s because our technology wasn't nearly as good as it is now. Now...we have all the tools to make a safer track for the horses and eventually thats going to win out. What I think they should do is after so many years...see what synthetic surface is the safest and use that at every track.
If I recall back in 2005 when Turfway decided to go Polytrack, it originally had nothing to do with safety. It was due to their main track freezing during their winter meet, and they would have too many cancellations. It wasn't until AFTER the first meet was concluded they realized that the inaugural meet had less breakdowns. I also have heard that while some types of injuries are down, soft tissue injuries are up.
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Old 11-08-2010, 05:30 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by Valuist
If I recall back in 2005 when Turfway decided to go Polytrack, it originally had nothing to do with safety. It was due to their main track freezing during their winter meet, and they would have too many cancellations. It wasn't until AFTER the first meet was concluded they realized that the inaugural meet had less breakdowns. I also have heard that while some types of injuries are down, soft tissue injuries are up.
Interesting. I don't think I've heard that part of the story before, meaning, the history of polytrack at TP.

So, I would assert that polytrack likely addressed a problem at TP, and, that problem was related to the freezing and/or hard ground. Maybe even a problem with maintaining the track during that part of the year. But do the same set of conditions and circumstances exist throughout all venues? Some but certainly not here in southern California.

Thanks, Valuist, for the history lesson.
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Old 11-08-2010, 07:14 PM   #40
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See, this is the sort of ignorant crap that makes my skin crawl:

Bill Dwyre: The barn door closes on Zenyatta's career, but much is left open in horse racing
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/nov...yatta-20101108

Excerpt:
Quote:
Still, although the attendance at Churchill Downs was higher, the 2008 and 2009 Breeders' Cups ran beautifully in perfect weather and without serious racing incident. At Churchill this year, one horse had to be put down after an accident Thursday and another during a Breeders' Cup race Saturday.

Was the dreaded Santa Anita synthetic safer than the cherished Churchill dirt? Don't think the Breeders' Cup board, which selects future sites, didn't notice.
Anyone see those fatalities? That was some wacky-lookin' dirt.

As if he needed any help looking like a jackass. Thank ever-lovin' goodness he's barred from voting on anything.

Last edited by BluegrassProf; 11-08-2010 at 07:28 PM.
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Old 11-08-2010, 09:25 PM   #41
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Who is that moron?
The horse slipped on GRASS, not dirt!

I guess you never let facts get in the way of a good story.
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Old 11-08-2010, 10:05 PM   #42
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Jim Murray's Ghost will be awakening tonight to kick his ass
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:00 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DJofSD
Interesting. I don't think I've heard that part of the story before, meaning, the history of polytrack at TP.

So, I would assert that polytrack likely addressed a problem at TP, and, that problem was related to the freezing and/or hard ground. Maybe even a problem with maintaining the track during that part of the year. But do the same set of conditions and circumstances exist throughout all venues? Some but certainly not here in southern California.

Thanks, Valuist, for the history lesson.
Exactly true about it being totally unnecessary in SoCal. I've always contended that the only North American track that should have it is Turfway. Arlington only put it in after the Chicago Tribune went on a smear campaign to bury Arlington after a higher than usual number of breakdowns on their main track in 2006.
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Old 11-08-2010, 11:52 PM   #44
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I sure hope HE has a HOTY vote...
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:10 AM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WinterTriangle
Take the human component, opinions, money, preferences, etc. out of the equation and I think you just nailed it.

There are enough omni-surface runners that have convinced me that what you say is true.

I personally buy real sheepskin slippers, and real wool or cotton fabrics to wear, eat veggies I grow myself, and have real-wood decking and fencing, is that mother nature knows best.

However, modern materials have their place, and there are just too many instances where I would defer to the newer modern high-tech "fake" stuff --- teflon, ripstock nylon, polymers, ceramics, alloys, polys, etc. Goretex rocks!

Whether or not "fake" has a place in racing is yet to be determined, IMHO.

Scientifically, nobody has proved anything beyond the shadow of a doubt about racing surfaces, as the fake is too new to have collected enough data, and ditto truly reliable and scientific statistics/data on all 3 surfaces. If you put together a real crack team of talented scientists who had NO conflicts of interest, and enough real data to even start a real study, I think we might get somewhere.

Anyone who says they have the answers without a bullet proof SERIES of studies (which will take a long time) is just groping in the dark, in terms of real science.
Take the human component out of it??Then mention every facet of things down to your slippers to back it up??!!!My my how we have transcended the prototypical reality!!

Having a 3rd surface for the last couple of years has definitely muddled reality.Once upon a time wondering wether turf to dirt and vice versa was the big mystery.Now you have 3 surfaces to equate.I don't know about you but for this kid it led to not betting or betting less.Most of the Juvenile races were a joke because of this.I love to bet,so if I am any indication,my hesitance means less is being bet on these races.It's hard to say whose form will transfer over.Betting is difficult enough.You wonder about surface transfers and it's a throw the hands up in the air "Whatever" proposition.If every race is apples to oranges,then I can see where being esoteric is a virtue.But it's tenuous.
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