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08-12-2020, 01:16 AM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Audubon, PA
Posts: 427
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question on race eligibility
In the 7th race at Assiniboia on 8/11, the race conditions say non winners of 2 life, yet there are 4 horses in the past performances with 2 career wins, and they all started. Can anyone explain why?
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08-12-2020, 02:30 AM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2018
Posts: 248
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As per their condition book:
All races with a net value of $2,500 or less to the winners will not be considered for determining eligibility or allowances at Assiniboia Downs.
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08-12-2020, 02:34 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Audubon, PA
Posts: 427
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Thanks, great answer. These clauses should appear in the printed race conditions.
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08-16-2020, 11:29 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Benton, La.
Posts: 1,841
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It would help every handicapper to get a copy of the condition book for the track that they are playing, it would answer a lot of questions if you know what to look for. They are on equibase and/or most tracks would be happy to send you one.
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08-16-2020, 12:57 PM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 1,223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green80
It would help every handicapper to get a copy of the condition book for the track that they are playing, it would answer a lot of questions if you know what to look for. They are on equibase and/or most tracks would be happy to send you one.
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At many tracks nowadays, the condition book is somewhat less useful than it used to be. Back when we were racing, the condition book would come out, there'd be some listed extras, and then a couple of extras would be added on the overnights. You knew you had to enter when the race that fit your horse came up in the book, even if you weren't quite ready - because it may be a couple of weeks before you saw that condition available again.
Now I often see overnights from many tracks with 10-15 extras listed, and cards with 40% of the races coming from extras, rather than the condition book. A lot of factors come into play - declining horse population, horses having longer gaps between races, certain trainers having the gravitas to be able to ask for extra to be written whenever they need one for ANY of their horses, not just the top ones, etc.
It's still valuable reading - and I would add the overnights as good information also - they can also bring a chuckle sometimes. I've enjoyed the Ron Flatter Racing Podcast when he's signed off by reading a little nugget from an overnight, e.g. "PLEASE DO NOT THROW TRASH INTO THE MANURE BINS. PLEASE CHECK YOUR BINS DAILY TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR HELP IS NOT THROWING ANY TRASH INTO THEM."
__________________
Tom in NW Arkansas
Past performances are no guarantee of future results. - Why isn't this disclaimer printed in the Daily Racing Form?
Last edited by BarchCapper; 08-16-2020 at 01:02 PM.
Reason: Additional thoughts
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08-24-2020, 12:42 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 4,284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarchCapper
At many tracks nowadays, the condition book is somewhat less useful than it used to be. Back when we were racing, the condition book would come out, there'd be some listed extras, and then a couple of extras would be added on the overnights. You knew you had to enter when the race that fit your horse came up in the book, even if you weren't quite ready - because it may be a couple of weeks before you saw that condition available again.
Now I often see overnights from many tracks with 10-15 extras listed, and cards with 40% of the races coming from extras, rather than the condition book. A lot of factors come into play - declining horse population, horses having longer gaps between races, certain trainers having the gravitas to be able to ask for extra to be written whenever they need one for ANY of their horses, not just the top ones, etc.
It's still valuable reading - and I would add the overnights as good information also - they can also bring a chuckle sometimes. I've enjoyed the Ron Flatter Racing Podcast when he's signed off by reading a little nugget from an overnight, e.g. "PLEASE DO NOT THROW TRASH INTO THE MANURE BINS. PLEASE CHECK YOUR BINS DAILY TO MAKE SURE THAT YOUR HELP IS NOT THROWING ANY TRASH INTO THEM."
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Sharp post. I entered a horse at Arlington the other day in X-33. Crazy. It comes from trainers wanting just the absolute perfect race and a short field to boot. The manure bins thing is because tracks sell the straw, shavings and manure to mushroom farms. Regular garbage messes that up quite a bit.
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"Just because she's a hitter and a thief doesn't mean she's not a good woman in all the other places" Mayrose Prizzi
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08-24-2020, 06:35 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,943
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From a handicapping perspective, you have to know the conditions of the race. The exemptions and all. Quite often, as was mentioned, you'll find a race that was written, it would seem, for one particular horse. Those always end up being 5 horse fields, but at least you know which one really means business.
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08-29-2020, 01:04 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 131
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Let me piggyback on this thread. I've seen horses in Optional Claiming races entered for a tag even though they meet the allowance conditions. Why would a trainer do this? Is there any handicapping value in this? I've seen a bomb like this come in once.
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08-29-2020, 02:10 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 1,290
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waquoit
Let me piggyback on this thread. I've seen horses in Optional Claiming races entered for a tag even though they meet the allowance conditions. Why would a trainer do this? Is there any handicapping value in this? I've seen a bomb like this come in once.
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I think that they would keep their condition if they win and were entered for a tag.
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08-29-2020, 02:41 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Benton, La.
Posts: 1,841
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waquoit
Let me piggyback on this thread. I've seen horses in Optional Claiming races entered for a tag even though they meet the allowance conditions. Why would a trainer do this? Is there any handicapping value in this? I've seen a bomb like this come in once.
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They may want to get the horse claimed or not mind if it's claimed if the claiming price is more than they value the horse.
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09-01-2020, 09:58 AM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green80
They may want to get the horse claimed or not mind if it's claimed if the claiming price is more than they value the horse.
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I saw a horse do this and win at 20-1 and I'm still can't decide it that move was a tip off. Or maybe the trainer was surprised himself?
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09-01-2020, 06:32 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
Sharp post. I entered a horse at Arlington the other day in X-33. Crazy. It comes from trainers wanting just the absolute perfect race and a short field to boot. The manure bins thing is because tracks sell the straw, shavings and manure to mushroom farms. Regular garbage messes that up quite a bit.
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Is Rivelli still strong-arming the racing office there?
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09-01-2020, 06:33 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,021
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Waquoit
Let me piggyback on this thread. I've seen horses in Optional Claiming races entered for a tag even though they meet the allowance conditions. Why would a trainer do this? Is there any handicapping value in this? I've seen a bomb like this come in once.
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Smart trainers do this all the time. They figure no chance for a claim so they can preserve the n#x condition to run after they win. Back 10 years ago I had a short list of 2 or 3 trainers that did this regularly and won at nice prices. I'd say they're worth a look, especially from high % barns.
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09-02-2020, 03:21 PM
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#14
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 113,075
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v j stauffer
Sharp post. I entered a horse at Arlington the other day in X-33. Crazy. It comes from trainers wanting just the absolute perfect race and a short field to boot. The manure bins thing is because tracks sell the straw, shavings and manure to mushroom farms. Regular garbage messes that up quite a bit.
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What is the policy about throwing manure into the trash bins?
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09-02-2020, 07:07 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 2,021
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I don't know if they do it anymore as I don't follow Penn, but when I had horses there they would have conditioned n1y races in the following claim levels:
4,000
5,000
7,500
10,000
12,500
16,000
Oftentimes the 7.5k n1y races would exclude wins at the 4k level and below, 10k excluded 5k and below, 16k excluded 10k etc...
A 4k claimer getting into form could make a fortune winning the 4k, then the 7,500, then 12,500,etc...all while racing against horses that haven't won in a year plus. A few sharp trainers like Beattie back 10 years ago would claim at the 5k level raise up to a n1y and win.
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