Maybe PETA has a point ...

[azeri98]

Sealed wet tracks are very dangerous. They pack down the dirt, zero cushion. Might as well run on concrete. Every track needs a synthetic for days with a lot of rain

[rastajenk]

No, it's not. Why would you say such a thing? It's not anywhere near 'concrete'. That's just silly.

[Robert Fischer]

why are people talking synthetic tracks in a pro-PETA thread?

PETA isn't fighting for a surface switch.

[Hambletonian]

The problem is we have two breakdowns on the premier day of the premier meet in the country. The best horses, a day full of stakes, and you can be absolutely sure theat every single horse was vet checked to avoid exactly what happened.

This just provides more fuel for the fire that horse racing cannot be made safe.

And the general public, which doesnt really give a hoot about horse racing, surely doesn't feel there are an acceptable number of fatalities.

[PaceAdvantage]

Did some of you guys in this thread (and others) just start following the horse racing game?

Asking for a friend.

[Redboard]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Did some of you guys in this thread (and others) just start following the horse racing game?

Asking for a friend.

You should choose your friends more carefully.

[bisket]

One other thing… the the between race segments on the Irad Ortiz family only rubs salt in the wound. That only that reinforces the callousness that the New York Racing Association has towards breakdowns.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by bisket

One other thing… the the between race segments on the Irad Ortiz family only rubs salt in the wound. That only that reinforces the callousness that the New York Racing Association has towards breakdowns.

What did you just write? I couldn't understand it

[burnsy]

These horses are not pets . They have a job, a function. Their purpose is racing . That’s the only reason they’re born in the first place . So, the PETA bs of “ saving “ horses pretty much means writing their lives off. The reality is these horses will never be born and you’re basically cutting the breed to basically nada.
It’s just a fact that racing has danger , horses will get hurt and some won’t make it. The newest, in vogue thing is blame the surface . But they could run on pillows, there would still be break downs . It’s actually safer now than it used to be.

It really becomes a cultural issue of what society will tolerate. I was there, and actually two horses broke down yesterday. Nobel in the fifth broke down during the gallop out and was euthanized. The break downs in front of the grandstand are worse because it’s a horrific shock when it happens . I felt awful but it’s unfortunately part of the game .

People in authority will decide what happens to horse racing and that will be based on public pressure . And right now the pressure is building . Walking in the gates yesterday you had to pass thru a virtual barrage of PETA folk with signs and yelling at the main gate . It was a sight to behold before this even happened. Of course, my wise ass said . When you get home and BBQ later no animals died for your hot dogs , hamburgers, steaks and ribs . Because the animal death rate there is about 100 percent . People love these horses they are not out to hurt or kill them . These events are unfortunate accidents . Which will always happen . But in the end we are the humans . We are the top of the food chain in this world . So it’s a tough one , are we supposed to be ashamed of that ? Cause that’s the feeling I get from these people .

[Hambletonian]

Originally Posted by burnsy

These horses are not pets . They have a job, a function. Their purpose is racing . That’s the only reason they’re born in the first place . So, the PETA bs of “ saving “ horses pretty much means writing their lives off. The reality is these horses will never be born and you’re basically cutting the breed to basically nada.
It’s just a fact that racing has danger , horses will get hurt and some won’t make it. The newest, in vogue thing is blame the surface . But they could run on pillows, there would still be break downs . It’s actually safer now than it used to be.

It really becomes a cultural issue of what society will tolerate. I was there, and actually two horses broke down yesterday. Nobel in the fifth broke down during the gallop out and was euthanized. The break downs in front of the grandstand are worse because it’s a horrific shock when it happens . I felt awful but it’s unfortunately part of the game .

People in authority will decide what happens to horse racing and that will be based on public pressure . And right now the pressure is building . Walking in the gates yesterday you had to pass thru a virtual barrage of PETA folk with signs and yelling at the main gate . It was a sight to behold before this even happened. Of course, my wise ass said . When you get home and BBQ later no animals died for your hot dogs , hamburgers, steaks and ribs . Because the animal death rate there is about 100 percent . People love these horses they are not out to hurt or kill them . These events are unfortunate accidents . Which will always happen . But in the end we are the humans . We are the top of the food chain in this world . So it’s a tough one , are we supposed to be ashamed of that ? Cause that’s the feeling I get from these people .

Not sure I would equate animals who die to serve as food with those that die for entertainment.

And you could make the same "they have a job" argument for fighting cocks and dogs, and good luck finding a place where you can do either legally.

I just feel uncomfortable with the whole "everyone in the industry loves their horses" propaganda, cause everyone on this board knows that that is simply not true. Especially in the US, where horse racing can still be a money making enterprise as opposed to countries like Great Britain and France, where it is simply not possible to show a profit racing horses no matter what you do. Here, in the best scenario, a horse is provided the vet care needed to keep it going for as long as possible, and it simply slides down the racing scale until it is no longer able to earn a penny anywhere. It is more cost effective to do that than to rest them up an pay those costs with no return. I don't think that most folks in the industry are cruel, but the tendencey is to squeeze the orange until all the juice is out and then leave it to the next set of connections to deal with. It is simply the economical thing to do, and since the idle rich make up a fairly low perentage of horse owners in the US, probably the only way to stay in business for most trainers.

I have been a fan for over 50 years, and my first memories were of Saratoga, where my grandparents would go every year. Sometimes we would be in the grandstand, sometimes sitting under the trees in lawn chairs. I am old enough to remember when they use to saddle the horses right out in the open, the trees were numbered and the horses would be saddled accordingly. I also remember a few occasions as a young kid under ten having to stand on the apron next to the winner's circle for the entire day. I was mesmorized how they would chalk out a winners circle for each race, then rerake and re chalk for the next race. I used to be given $2 a race to bet, and I still remember the day when I put my money to win on the 6 horse in the 6th race and it paid $16.60. From that day forward my lucky number was of course 6.

I was fortunate enough to be a track collector right as the first great racetrack extinction was happening but before the second. I will never catch the top dogs, but nobody is ever going to catch me who didn't start 30 years ago lol. And the writing is on the wall. What interests me is that Churchill Downs and NYRA are two operations that I cannot imagine ever leaving the game, and they have been openly the most concerned with the events that have transpired.

I have to say that I have not been traumatized as some here have by the recent events. Yep, breakdowns by undefeated horses in major stakes races as they were coasting to victory in the shadow of the wire are very unusual, but a breakdown is a breakdown end of story. And if the racing industry is going to feel that it is absolutely imperative to be instantly reactive to negate the unfortunate bad press that results...I don't think that says much for the long term viability of the industry.

[burnsy]

I’ve been going as long as you have . Everything you said is how I grew up . I lived blocks away from the Racecourse until I was an adult . My father built a house on North st. I could walk to the track . You’re right there’s abuse and cheating . Not everyone loves their horses . But the horses that just broke down . They were probably living better than some humans do . And if you actually read what I said . The decision is not mine . It will be made for me . Whether this sport ends or not . If it’s determined that the game is too dangerous……I’m 60 years old . I can’t do anything about it . But I’m not going to be shamed because I’m a human. Christ , these PETA people live in a reality that will never exist.
Do they want me to turn my cat loose too . Cause I heard one of them say pets are bad . My cat won’t go outside when the temp is under 40. They’ve got their share of koo koos too . There are always some bad in every group . That’s just life . I saw one of these trainers in the Clubhouse after a horse broke down. She looked like she was going to have a nervous breakdown. It was bad . But life isn’t always a good . That’s just the reality . If you’re in the sports business of any kind . There are risks . What would this world be without sports and entertainment? It’s a fine line and reality .

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by Hambletonian

Here, in the best scenario, a horse is provided the vet care needed to keep it going for as long as possible, and it simply slides down the racing scale until it is no longer able to earn a penny anywhere. It is more cost effective to do that than to rest them up an pay those costs with no return.

That is indeed the best case scenario. While most of us complain about a horse retired to stud after a 6-race career, on the other end of the spectrum are geldings - many of which are raced until they just can't, or they break down. Not a week goes by that you don't see a gelding in the PPs that has over 100 races to his name, usually at cheaper tracks on short rest.

Excellent vet care is no doubt what makes possible horses like CHANNEL MAKER, a 9-year old gelding that has earned nearly $4 million and which made his 55th start yesterday (he finished sixth in a field of six). I expect (or at least hope) that he'll soon get a decent retirement. But he'll be the exception. Too many fall through the ranks until they end up in hellholes like Camarero - or in a Mexican slaughterhouse.

[bisket]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

What did you just write? I couldn't understand it

Making Irad Ortiz a star in spite of his behavior on the track shows that racing in the state of New York just doesn’t get the sentiments of a growing percentage of their customers

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by burnsy

These horses are not pets . They have a job, a function. Their purpose is racing . That’s the only reason they’re born in the first place . So, the PETA bs of “ saving “ horses pretty much means writing their lives off. The reality is these horses will never be born and you’re basically cutting the breed to basically nada.......
.

Most logical and reasonable.

[Sheffwed]

Originally Posted by Sheffwed

okay but what about the horses?

the idea that racing is bad, no racing is good does not consider at all the actual future for the horses themselves

What purpose for the horse in the modern world? If we don't answer that question, then where are we on helping truly make things better?

Mankind and horses had a symbiotic relationship since horses first emerged from Arabia. Horses were the means of transportation and agriculture, and now we just discard them?

Its amazing to me how little so many people actually think about the (global) outcome of what they suggest - it is human nature to become uncomfortable about the status quo - the same is true with climate change, and what about other countries? The best case scenario resolutions are always more complicated and need more thought

What do you think the horses would want?

To be raised and treated well in places like Fair Hill and the English countryside for starters, and some are born wanting to run

This isn't boxing - if we really care about horses, then maybe think about the actual resultant outcome of your actions if they were to be successful

I will ask again - what purpose the horse in the modern world - that said our horses deserve so much better - and anyone who cares should stop wagering on NYRA races at once, think about Woodbine where the horses don't just collapse regularly for example - make no mistake, NYRA should have its license to operate examined, let alone being trusted with 400-500m USD of NY State taxpayer money while they have already destroyed Belmont and oversee the global jewel of racing having its worst meet in its history by far and they seem utterly clueless as to how unsafe their surfaces have become, or do they simply not care?