Bends at Aqueduct

[DSB]

Okay, so in one breath you cite all the great trainers who used them, then in the next you tell me that they were banned because of one trainer who didn't want to use them.

Hard to believe that's the reason, but hey, you're the expert....

[Stillriledup]

Originally Posted by DSB

Okay, so in one breath you cite all the great trainers who used them, then in the next you tell me that they were banned because of one trainer who didn't want to use them.

Hard to believe that's the reason, but hey, you're the expert....

Shug McGaughey didnt use them to my recollection and he trained for Phipps. Not sure if that means anything at all, just an observation.

[Ernie Dahlman]

Originally Posted by DSB

Okay, so in one breath you cite all the great trainers who used them, then in the next you tell me that they were banned because of one trainer who didn't want to use them.

Hard to believe that's the reason, but hey, you're the expert....

The Jockey Club was responsible for the ban. Claude R McGaughey (the 3rd) just trains for some of their members.

[DSB]

Originally Posted by Ernie Dahlman

The Jockey Club was responsible for the ban. Claude R McGaughey (the 3rd) just trains for some of their members.

And all of these are lap dogs in on the fix?

http://www.jockeyclub.com/resources/..._tsc_final.pdf

[Ernie Dahlman]

[QUOTE=DSB]And all of these are lap dogs in on the fix?

http://www.jockeyclub.com/resources/..._tsc_final.pdf[/QUOTE
The shoe changes implemented by the Jockey Club 4 1/2 years ago have had a negative effect on horse safety in NY. Traction shoes make horses safer. Words like fix and lap dogs don't belong in this conversation.

[DSB]

And I was hoping for a simple yes or no answer.

[QUOTE=Ernie Dahlman][QUOTE=DSB]And all of these are lap dogs in on the fix?

http://www.jockeyclub.com/resources/..._tsc_final.pdf[/QUOTE

Originally Posted by Ernie Dahlman

The shoe changes implemented by the Jockey Club 4 1/2 years ago have had a negative effect on horse safety in NY. Traction shoes make horses safer.

I'm glad you prefaced your comments with "my opinion." The opinions of various trainers, jockeys, and blacksmiths probably differ.

Originally Posted by Ernie Dahlman

Words like fix and lap dogs don't belong in this conversation.

Sorry if I hurt your feelings. However, you do realize that this is what you've been suggesting, don't you? If, as you suggest, racing rules - which have resulted in increased danger for horses - have been put in place by JC members at the behest of their trainer for personal gain, that would not only be immoral, but possibly illegal, especially if injuries to horses and riders could be attributed to it.

[Tom]

http://www.nytimes.com/1993/10/02/sp...rned-down.html

This was big deal a while ago.
Many trainers continued to use them - including top 10 trainers.
One trainer even pointed them out to the world at large during a post parade.

More:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/199...ack-turn-downs

There was a lot of talk about turn downs in the POST back then...not sure if they exist in archives or not.

[Ernie Dahlman]

Originally Posted by Tom

This was big deal a while ago.
Many trainers continued to use them - including top 10 trainers.
One trainer even pointed them out to the world at large during a post parade.

More:

http://articles.sun-sentinel.com/199...ack-turn-downs

There was a lot of talk about turn downs in the POST back then...not sure if they exist in archives or not.

As the article states, turndowns were banned as a safety issue for jockeys. The story I heard was that Sea Hero was invited to race at a Canadian track. The problem was that Sea Hero wore turndowns and they were not allowed at Canadian tracks. Miller said he wasn't going unless he could use turndowns and they relented. On the flight back Jerry Bailey voiced his concerns as to the danger of getting stepped on by a horse wearing turndowns and this led to the ban.

[Ernie Dahlman]

Sorry if I hurt your feelings. However, you do realize that this is what you've been suggesting, don't you? If, as you suggest, racing rules - which have resulted in increased danger for horses - have been put in place by JC members at the behest of their trainer for personal gain, that would not only be immoral, but possibly illegal, especially if injuries to horses and riders could be attributed to it.

These bans happened in 2008. The Jockey Club thought they were fixing the problem that was causing breakdowns. Slewis and I argued against the changes.I believe we were right but they won.

[MightBeSosa]

Originally Posted by Ernie Dahlman

.... On the flight back Jerry Bailey voiced his concerns as to the danger of getting stepped on by a horse wearing turndowns and this led to the ban.

Some trainers used very severe td's as I'm sure you know.

Would be like getting stabbed with a small knife if you got stepped on. And the horizontal momentum would probably rip you to shreds.

[nijinski]

Originally Posted by Ernie Dahlman

As the article states, turndowns were banned as a safety issue for jockeys. The story I heard was that Sea Hero was invited to race at a Canadian track. The problem was that Sea Hero wore turndowns and they were not allowed at Canadian tracks. Miller said he wasn't going unless he could use turndowns and they relented. On the flight back Jerry Bailey voiced his concerns as to the danger of getting stepped on by a horse wearing turndowns and this led to the ban.

Bailey was not the only Jockey that spoke up . I also doubt that his objection
alone to a traction shoe was the end all .

Lets face it after Eight Belle's death which was followed by huge attention on steroids , there was no turning back on many issues . The front traction appliances as they called them were on the table and they were done after
May 08 for sure .

The snow plow effect that the UC Davis study brought up , I would imagine there is something substantial to it . Vets from New Bolton echoed the same theory from the study .

[Ernie Dahlman]

Originally Posted by nijinski

The snow plow effect that the UC Davis study brought up , I would imagine there is something substantial to it . Vets from New Bolton echoed the same theory from the study .

I haven't seen the studies done with the data available since the changes were made 4 1/2 years ago. Should show substantial improvement in horse safety.

[Gallop58]

Dredging up an old thread, but thought it might be a good place to ask the following:
What is the state of the nation for Shoe Boards? I ask because this morning Baffert mentioned on HRTV that the Dude was wearing plastic shoes last night. Pulled a shoe in the Big Cap and hadn't regrown enough. How would I have known had I been interested before the fact?
I also recall a recent race where rain had soaked the track a few races before and the TV commentator had mentioned (after the race) that the winner, an out of the blue closing longshot had been the only one wearing the appropriate footwear. Nice. Would have been nice to know.
Do any tracks have an online shoe board?
Do tracks have physical boards and are they required to display info?
Or has this fallen off the map?

[Bennie]

Gallop58 - one of the few reasons I am glad that TVG took over NJBets is because the NY tracks will post them on screen starting around the 10 minute mark. Unfortunately, it is with each upcoming race and not any other advanced races. Wet weather, I handicap the race then look for those listed with bends. If any of my horses show up, all is well. If they don't I take a quick look to see if there was a borderline horse I left out for cost reasons and add them in while deleting the bottom horse on my first list. Sometimes they post "all with bends" so no adjustment needed. Before TVG I had no live feed for the NY tracks and either went on my limited knowledge of "mudders" or past the race. I know other tracks sometimes indicate bends or caulks but not sure which ones. I think Delaware uses a different colored "diamond" to show shoe changes but unless you are really looking for them they are hard to notice. At least NY shows the numbers right on the screen.

[therussmeister]

Delaware Park's track video feed has indicators for shoes when they show the odds. All tracks should do the same.