Now it's Churchill!

[rrbauer]

Had enough of this crap. Forget the Derby, forget the TC....I'll see you at Saratoga.

http://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-raci...358&source=rss

[Tom]

Greedy bastards. Boycott KY again. And California, and Florida.
I'm not even going to Toga...not after the Noah's Ark trip last year.
Fort Eire gets my money this year. Canada knows how to treat its customers. Screw the US tracks - all of them.

[cj]

I'm not sure I'd point to Canada as the model to follow.

[BUD]

The more I learn about the Biz the more I wish I did not know.

[BillW]

FE is at the bottom of the HANA track Rating list. If it wasn't for ASD, they'd be last.

[trying2win]

I've mentioned many times before, that Tracknet is usually bad news for bettors. Another fine example here with the disputes over the Churchill Downs signal. And Tom is right in some ways that Canada knows how to treat it's customers....well...at least in some ways...not necessarily in all ways better than the U.S. tracks:

1. Canadian tracks have nickel breakage...U.S. tracks, the rip-off dime breakage.

2. Canadian tracks have no 'signers' to pay extra income taxes....U.S. tracks...well we all know the story on the rip-off laws on 'signers' in this country. One way to get reform on items 1 and 2 in the U.S. is too complain to the powers in the U.S. that control the laws on these extra burdensome taxes on parimutuel bets. How to do that? Maybe complain to your state or federal representative? Oh yeah, remind them that by eliminating these extra parimutuel taxes, that that will actually increase parimutuel handle and thus increase revenues to state and/or federal governments. Seems common sense to me.

3. Northlands Park has the lowest takeout on straight bets. I believe it's 16.8 %. And that can be brought lower if you bet through PTC, who give a generous rebate on Northlands Park bets. Every little edge helps. The bad news is the gimmick takeouts at Northlands Park I believe are 24.8 %, which is too high in my opinion. That can be lowered of course by betting through PTC.

4. We get free parking and admission at Northlands Park, so I guess that's worth mentioning.

5. Canadian horsemen overall seem to be a cooperative, grateful bunch compared to many of their U.S. counterparts.

6. The Woodbine Entertainment Group is one negative aspect of Canadian racing in my opinion, from too many arrogant executives to exorbitant gimmick takouts on their own Woodbine and Mohawk racetracks, and to their cheapskate HPI operation.

T2W
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
~"If you can't imitate him, don't copy him."

-Yogi Berra

[Rook]

Originally Posted by BillW

FE is at the bottom of the HANA track Rating list. If it wasn't for ASD, they'd be last.

It was a disgrace to have FE ranked that low. I had them ranked 9th. Unlike evil Woodbine, they have an open signal policy and with the rebates available at PTC, they have one of the lowest effective takeouts. They also supply video on their website, which is sadly not the norm.

[dutchboy]

Lot of 6 and 7 horse fields opening day at Churchill. Wonder why?

[Tom]

Originally Posted by BillW

FE is at the bottom of the HANA track Rating list. If it wasn't for ASD, they'd be last.

Near the top of mine.
HANA not looking at what I look at - good racing, profitability.
They put KEE on top didn't they? Worst crap track for betting on earth, IMHO.
CD comes in #5, but you can't bet it. Nice. Seems the ratings lack some reality.

[trying2win]

Try and describe what you think of either Drew Couto of the TOC, or Scott Daruthy of Tracknet in a short sentence of adjectives and a nouns, without using a barrage of four, five, six or seven letter swear words... . I guess it's possible...let's see now...uh...um...er...ah....

T2W
------------------------------------------------------------------------
~"Be more concerned with your character than your reputation, because your character is what you really are, while your reputation is merely what others think you are."

--John Wooden

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by Rook

It was a disgrace to have FE ranked that low. I had them ranked 9th. Unlike evil Woodbine, they have an open signal policy and with the rebates available at PTC, they have one of the lowest effective takeouts. They also supply video on their website, which is sadly not the norm.

They have the highest exactor takeout of all tracks. That is very disappointing. They also have small field sizes.
I agree that they sell their signal to anyone, and kept going with PTC even when Woodbine pulled the plug.
They are also one of the only tracks I know of that has their video available to everyone.
It is a great track to hang at. Free admission and very friendly atmosphere. I just won't bet there without a substantial rebate.

[sandpit]

Originally Posted by dutchboy

Lot of 6 and 7 horse fields opening day at Churchill. Wonder why?

Indiana Downs, Mountaineer, Charles Town, etc. all sucking the bottom end horses away from Kentucky with their slots-fueled purses. Plus, the idiotic management forcing the Racing Secretary to card 11 races opening day is ridiculous. If they would run 9, you would have two less 6-horse races to sit through. Derby Day, I believe they are running 13 races! This drains the horse population tremendously...watch the week after Derby and see how light the entries are. By the first of June, the place may look like Hollywood Park east.

[andicap]

I'm just wondering why we're blaming CHurchill Downs when we don't have any -- or very few facts -- here. They reached a deal with the horsemen so that's over and done with.

Seems to me negotiations are going to be tougher and tougher because ADWs/tracks are trying to keep a few points for rebates. Well its got to come otu of someone's pocket and it sure as hell won't be the state or the horsemen.
And TVG gets a 5.5% split -- that it's business model They've always been tough negotiators on that. They've had and lost Arlington, Fair Grounds, Calder, Churchill and some others over their split. So why is this a surprise?

And the article suggests You Bet is likely to come to terms but if You Bet is eager to give rebates, well where is that 2-3% coming from?

[andicap]

Another thought.

We have good reason to be angry and this is a great forum for venting. Get it out. Shout it loud to the rafters and scream, baby, scream! Do your best Howard Beale impression. After all, there are no horseplayer/fan reps in any of the rooms here -- as usual our interests are in the hands of groups who have never shown any inclination to be sympathetic to our needs.

But if HANA is to be effective -- and I realize HANA has not weighed in here -- but if we as fans/horseplayers are going to have credibility as a group we must carefully weigh all the facts before demanding blood, makng boycott threats, etc.

What people do as individuals on an everyday basis is up to them of course -- if you want to boycott CDm who am I or anyone else to tell you not to -- but as HANA members we should at least try and weigh these issues after listening to ALL sides.

Should our ire here be aimed at CD or TVG or both?

I think this is an excellent time for HANA to pipe up, demand the facts, issue a statement asking why we are being caught in the middle -- avoiding inflammatory language -- and maintain our right to be involved in the process, somehow. Or at the very least, be kept closely informed and in contact with the parties involved.

[rrbauer]

Originally Posted by Cangamble

They have the highest exactor takeout of all tracks. That is very disappointing. They also have small field sizes.
I agree that they sell their signal to anyone, and kept going with PTC even when Woodbine pulled the plug.
They are also one of the only tracks I know of that has their video available to everyone.It is a great track to hang at. Free admission and very friendly atmosphere. I just won't bet there without a substantial rebate.

Tampa Bay and Keeneland both have live video from their web sites. There are probably others that I don't play/know about.