Household income=Best in 50 yrs

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Yeah...I question the guys' remarks that China makes quality products! That GENERALLY is not true! And I know it's not true because I have gone out of my way to spend more money for better products in order to realize true value for money spent.

You also said that people, generally will just gravitate toward cheaper products. And I say that is only true for people who don't appreciate or understand the value of VALUE.

And here's more "anecdotal" evidence. I recently spent several thousand dollars on a massage chair. After several weeks of research and shopping, I decided to go with a chair that is made in China. I bought this particular chair for three major reasons: The chair made in Japan was not a wall-saver type and it would not have fit well in the space I had for it in my family room. Secondly, the company who makes the chair in China has very good overall reviews online and has been in business for 35 years. Lastly, I got a 5-year in-home warranty and the service is local. I've had the chair now going on 2 months. I already have problems -- on a chair that costs lots of money! The problems are relatively minor at this point, but they're not going to improve. I haven't contacted the company yet because I want to conduct some tests of my own to see what the extent of one particular problem is. Once I do, then I'll contact the company.

So...you can boast about the manufacturing speed and cheap cost of Chinese products and I will not argue with you. I agree totally that most Chinese products are cheaply made -- not designed to last -- not designed to give the consumer value for his buck. Therefore, not of high quality.

This has nothing to do with any of what I was trying to say...

Trump caved on the China Trade issue. Where's the outrage?

[xtb]

Originally Posted by Clocker

And the solution to that is tariffs that Trump's own people admitted will increase the cost of living for the average American by up to 15%?

That's one solution. If foreign manufacturers do not have the same regulations as we do, I think we should impose tariffs equal to the cost that federal regulations put upon our manufacturers, are adding to the price of US made products. At the very least, we should match all tariffs from other countries. I think it's far better to have more jobs and possibly pay a bit more for some goods than to continue watching our jobs get sucked out of our country.

It seems that the "We are the world" globalists don't mind that virtual slave labor creates much of the low cost products we consume and don't care that there is not an OSHA type agency protecting these same workers.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

This has nothing to do with any of what I was trying to say...

Trump caved on the China Trade issue. Where's the outrage?

My initial post had nothing to do with what you said. It had to do with the guy in the article who claimed that China makes quality products. I was questioning his seriously judgment, not yours.

You're another one with a reading comp problem.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...nomy-optimism/

Yep......just keep on winning.....

I wonder why Obama never got this done? He waaassss ssssooo ssssmmmmaaarrrt!

He got that done and more. According to FRED which, is an actual government site, in 2014 Median Household Income increased 5.2%, and for the last four years of the Obama administration, it increased at an average annual rate of 3%; which is precisely what you are bragging about for Trump.

The fact is that any economic improvement under Orange Boy is nothing more than a continuation of progress begun under President Obama.

A comment on the Trump tax cuts. The ones which were supposed to jump start the economy and create trillions of jobs? Well, in the fifteen months since Trump took office, 227,000 fewer jobs were created than in the last fifteen months of the Obama administration.

But to be fair, the tax cuts were not passed until December 2017, so January, February, March and April 2018 must have been a bonanza in job creation.
Not so much. With one exception, you have to go back to 2010 to find a year which had worse job creation in the first four months than 2018.

That year was 2017 which was the year Trump took office.

[mostpost]

I forgot to mention the article I saw about oil companies saving more than $15B due to the new tax code and how they are using that money to give bonuses and pay raises to their workers.

I'm sorry, I got that wrong. They are using the money to buy back stock and line their pockets.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

https://www.investors.com/politics/e...nomy-optimism/

Yep......just keep on winning.....

I wonder why Obama never got this done? He waaassss ssssooo ssssmmmmaaarrrt!

Enough, I didn't agree with many of Obama's policy, but he took over a horrible situation (as a result of the Fed's easy money policies; I don't blame GWB).

And the reality is real median household income hit an all-time high during Obama's last year in office.

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/MEHOINUSA672N

Now why has the economy performed better over the past 18 months or so under Trump?

1) Extension of falling unemployment under Obama (peaked in fall of 2009 at 10% and fell steadily to 4.9% in Dec 2016).

https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/UNRATE

2) Easy money from the Fed (again a continuation from under Obama, not his policy of course).

3) Oil went from $110 or so in the middle of 2014 to a low of roughly $30 in early 2016. Historically this was a good thing for the US, but as you know the US is now a big energy producer. As a result, hundreds of thousands of energy and industrial-related jobs were eliminated. That has all turned around over the past two years, as oil has steadily risen back to $70.

4) Trump tax cuts. We must give credit where credit is due - the tax cuts have helped consumer/corporate sentiment, and created a positive wealth effect from the stock market.

5) Trump spending. He never should have signed that bill (huge growth in nondefense discretionary spend), but it has helped the economy in the short term.

That's an honest view of the economy.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by mostpost

I forgot to mention the article I saw about oil companies saving more than $15B due to the new tax code and how they are using that money to give bonuses and pay raises to their workers.

I'm sorry, I got that wrong. They are using the money to buy back stock and line their pockets.

Sooo....if that's true, what is that to YOU? How long have you suffered from "penis" envy, i.e. the size of your bank account is larger than mine?

[Tom]

I'm sorry, I got that wrong. They are using the money to buy back stock and line the pockets of their investors, and to grow 401K plans and other retirement plans, the real way, not like ponzi-scheme pensions.

FTFY.

[Tom]

Probably a better method than tariffs would be to require all impots to be manufactured under the same regulations as US manufacturers abide by. Environmental regs, OSHA regs, (which China laughs at), quality standards - ISO, AS, etc. Of course that means third party audits, iron-clad paperwork trails.....all stuff that right now China absolutely ignores.

In fact, allowing anything into this country that does not adhere to this kind of regulation is irresponsible.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Tom

Probably a better method than tariffs would be to require all impots to be manufactured under the same regulations as US manufacturers abide by. Environmental regs, OSHA regs, (which China laughs at), quality standards - ISO, AS, etc. Of course that means third party audits, iron-clad paperwork trails.....all stuff that right now China absolutely ignores.

In fact, allowing anything into this country that does not adhere to this kind of regulation is irresponsible.

It just makes the products more expensive.

At some point Chinese, Iranian, Indian, etc. Workers will begin to demand higher wages. Benefits. Safety standards etc.

It's why you have a developed and developing world. The develop world would never work under the conditions someone in the developing world gladly would.

It's why this weird economic nationalism and maga stuff has to ignore economic facts... nationalism and #MAGA are feelings and emotions... the laws of economics give zero shits about emotions and feelings.

At the end of the day the smart thing to do is admit stuff we used to do we just won't be doing as much of anymore. Instead of wanting to harken to days long past and looking at the present in the negative, view it as an opportunity to innovate and create new industries.

[Tom]

It just makes the products more expensive.

Yes, it does.
that is why OUR costs are so high.
Why should we only penalize our own manufacturers and reward those who send cheap and sometimes dangerous products here to costus jobs?

ISO and AS and OSHA and environmental standard are there for a purpose - to protect society and the environment. We require manufactures adhere to them to ensure the quality and safety of their products and the environments where they are made.

Not talking about the stupid regs 0bama put in place for political reason - real standards must be mandatory to participate in our marketplaces.

[reckless]

Despite the very real and direct accomplishment of President Donald John Trump in policies that has given us growth in the economy with record-setting expansion the very best in the world... plus record lows in unemployment, wages up, stock market up greatly... know-it-alls such as elysiantraveler and clocker still say Trump is a dope and his followers are bigger dopes and fanboys.

These two, wrong on every turn since Trump's historic esculator ride to destiny in June 2015 still insist they are the right and the facts and results are wrong!!

Remember, Trump's campaign was on creating jobs, cutting taxes, ending regulation, putting in tariffs ... and he's done all that. Despite the expert ---- views of clocker and elysiantraveler, Trump did what he promised, didn't listen to them, and the Trump economic agenda have been correct!

They know everything yet they've been wrong on every thing about Trump, his policies and his supporters. Funny how life is in social media. Often wrong, never in doubt.

And that's what they've become ... a joke.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by reckless

...

[Clocker]

Originally Posted by xtb

I think it's far better to have more jobs and possibly pay a bit more for some goods than to continue watching our jobs get sucked out of our country.

A "bit" more? A 15% increase in the cost of living is a bit more? And tariffs aren't going to bring those jobs back. Almost 85% of the manufacturing jobs lost in this country in recent years were lost to automation, not to moving off-shore.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by Tom

Probably a better method than tariffs would be to require all impots to be manufactured under the same regulations as US manufacturers abide by. Environmental regs, OSHA regs, (which China laughs at), quality standards - ISO, AS, etc. Of course that means third party audits, iron-clad paperwork trails.....all stuff that right now China absolutely ignores.

In fact, allowing anything into this country that does not adhere to this kind of regulation is irresponsible.

So your solution is MORE government interference in the market place?

Our safety laws and regulations are for the benefit of American worker's. Why do we care about Billy overseas too? Because he's taking our job by working in conditions none of us would agree to?