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05-10-2018, 10:42 AM
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#256
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Let's not act as if Donald Trump is the only person in the world ever opposed to this agreement with Iran.
There were plenty of Republicans and even Democrats (including high ranking ones), who opposed the deal back when Obama was signing his name to it.
And a bad deal, even if it is "working," is still a bad deal to those who didn't like it from the start.
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I opposed the deal.
But if a deal is accomplishing what it set out to accomplish and all sides are following it by definition that is a "good" deal.
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05-10-2018, 10:47 AM
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#257
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
You know, all I kept hearing before this amazing "deal" was made by Obama...was that NOBODY wants a war with Iran. Not even the United States. I would hear people on here and in the media say that a war with Iran would be a bloody disaster...they are a large and fierce opponent....blah blah blah blah blah
So...with that narrative still in play, I assume, WHY would Israel WANT a war with Iran? If even the USA would be second-guessing a military conflict with Iran why would Israel WANT such a thing?
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Israel doesn't really want a war with Iran. Israel wants the United States to go to war with Iran. So do the Saudis.
The hawks and neoconservatives, the same fiercest critics of the deal, still want a war with Iran. John Bolton is on record stating regime change is his goal in Iran. Folks on here, who claim to hate neo-conservatives, espoused the exact same talking points as them during the Obama years calling for strikes on Iran.
Meanwhile, other critics of the deal like Mattis changed their tune when they saw that it was actually working. Like any deal you don't know if its good until you see the results.
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 05-10-2018 at 10:49 AM.
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05-10-2018, 10:49 AM
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#258
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PA Steward
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Del Boca Vista
Posts: 88,633
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Next thing you're going to tell me is that there is going to be another 9/11-style attack that will be used as an excuse to invade Iran...can't wait.
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05-10-2018, 10:57 AM
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#259
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage
Next thing you're going to tell me is that there is going to be another 9/11-style attack that will be used as an excuse to invade Iran...can't wait.
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I never said that.
But does what I'm saying make any sense?
April 4th: Trump announces plan to withdraw from Syria via twitter.
April 8th: Israel attacks the T4 Airbase killing Iranians.
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May 8th: Netanyahu just so happens to be in Russia as the US withdraws and the Israeli's strike Iranian facilities.
I don't believe in any of that false flag stuff. But I do believe that if you are trying to create a war you need to create conditions that make it more likely. There are countless examples of the FDR administration attempting to drag the US into war... check out the USS Kearny.
Also... if you wanted us out of Syria that is now completely off the table.
Last edited by elysiantraveller; 05-10-2018 at 11:05 AM.
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05-10-2018, 11:13 AM
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#260
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: donkeys ride from ASD
Posts: 13,002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
I opposed the deal.
But if a deal is accomplishing what it set out to accomplish and all sides are following it by definition that is a "good" deal.
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All it ever was is a 'deal' a nonbinding, unsigned document. Much like Obama
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05-10-2018, 11:25 AM
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#261
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodtoo
All it ever was is a 'deal' a nonbinding, unsigned document. Much like Obama
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I covered this... UNSC R2231 is the agreement.
Just like UNSC R1441 paved the way for the Iraq war.
I get it if you think abandoning the agreement is the right thing to do... but it exists.
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05-10-2018, 02:12 PM
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#262
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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Lyin Cryin Chuck
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05-10-2018, 02:33 PM
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#263
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthecreek
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Chuck needs to eat the humble pie.
I did... I was dead wrong on the deal... my first post on the issue:
Quote:
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Originally Posted by 7/14/15
This is not a deal. No one is getting what they really want here.
Iran views American military adventurism as a serious national security issue - not addressed.
Israel wants a tangible safeguard or barrier to a nuclear Iran - not given.
The US wants clear transparency on the Iranian program to maintain a clear balance of power in the region - not given.
I would go so far as to say this is a step in the WRONG direction as no one gets the assurances they sought. Also, going forward now all three sides have a useless piece of paper to negotiate around.
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Interestingly Robert Goren pretty much nailed it with his early analysis.
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05-10-2018, 03:27 PM
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#264
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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Obama legacy- Just about sums it up
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05-10-2018, 03:30 PM
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#265
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 2,956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
Chuck needs to eat the humble pie.
I did... I was dead wrong on the deal... my first post on the issue:
Interestingly Robert Goren pretty much nailed it with his early analysis.
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If this was Twitter, Id favorite your post👍 Some Dens will NEVER give Trump credit for anything.
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05-10-2018, 07:35 PM
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#266
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by upthecreek
If this was Twitter, Id favorite your post👍 Some Dens will NEVER give Trump credit for anything.
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Forget the shape shiftier, President Donald J. Trump is live in the Hoosier State, he obviously has endless amounts of energy. 2AM MD 4AM DC 7PM Indiana
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05-10-2018, 08:40 PM
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#267
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 46,883
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fast4522
Forget the shape shiftier, President Donald J. Trump is live in the Hoosier State, he obviously has endless amounts of energy. 2AM MD 4AM DC 7PM Indiana
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Meanwhile...Hillary is at home nursing her 2nd or 3rd bottle of the day.
__________________
Consistent profits can only be made on the basis of analysis that is far from obvious to the majority. - anonymous guru
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05-10-2018, 11:47 PM
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#268
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Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: near Philadelphia
Posts: 4,560
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
If you read the article they were on board with complying with his demands.
A better deal within the framework of the existing one was there.
Instead he walked out. Made the decision back in January. Clocker and I are correct.
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The only one who is correct in this matter is Donald J. Trump, as usual.
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05-11-2018, 09:10 AM
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#269
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 14,036
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Robert Merry, editor of the American Conservative, and staunch hater of things neocon weighs in on the issue...
Israel Nudges Trump Towards War With Iran
Quote:
His [Netanyahu] aim is to get America to curtail Iranian power and influence in the region—a level of power and influence, it should be noted, that was greatly heightened by America’s 2003 Iraq invasion, supported avidly at the time by none other than Benjamin Netanyahu.
In other words, Netanyahu wanted the United States to get rid of Iraq’s Saddam Hussein in the interest of Israeli security—and now wants us to risk another war to take care of the fallout from that destabilizing misadventure.
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Quote:
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In pulling the United States out of the international nuclear deal, Trump has heightened tensions with Iran on a number of issues unrelated to whatever nuclear ambitions that country may have. Netanyahu, who hated the nuclear deal from the start because it eased tensions and diminished pressure on Iran, now sees his opportunity to goad the Islamic Republic with pinprick airstrikes against Iranian positions in Syria. With Israel killing Iranians, a retaliatory response is inevitable, which is what Netanyahu wants.
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05-11-2018, 06:19 PM
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#270
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2004
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 14,483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elysiantraveller
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We might destroy them the next time they have it coming, but a war that involves nation building or change is not in the cards. The spoils of that one will be who can sell large quantities of concrete.
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