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Old 01-14-2018, 01:29 PM   #16
ultracapper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racetrack Playa View Post
2017
#1 secondcrop
#4 stakes winners-15
#9 earnings-3,506,488

99 runners 48 winners
330 starts 74 wins

Nextout gonna be the Favorite
Frankincense

Very respectable
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Old 01-14-2018, 01:55 PM   #17
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Very respectable
Maybe. Not bad, but it's a very different breeding game over there. They don't have the pool of stallions that we do.

Since I couldn't find a list just for Europeans, I took the international list from the BH, and here's how Frankel stacks up once I remove the Japanese and Australian sires (for 2017):

In Europe (meaning Ireland and England, and I guess France if only they had any to make the list, which they don't), Frankel is 12th.

Galileo
Fastnet Rock
High Chaparral
Exceed and Excel
Dubawi
Iffradj
Teofilo
Lope de Vega
Dark Angel
Mastercraftsman
Shamardal
Frankel
Choisir
Sea the Stars

He's 12th in Europe, but 65th on the International Sires List. American stallions that rank higher?

Unbridled's Song
Medaglia d'Oro
Street Cry
Candy Ride
Tapit
Kitten's Joy
More Than Ready
Scat Daddy
Hard Spun
Harland's Holiday
Empire Maker
Malibu Moon
Ghostzapper
Curlin
Quality Road
Into Mischief
Street Sense
City Zip
War Front
Street Boss
Uncle Mo
Lookin at Lucky
Giant's Causeway
Speightstown
Bernardini

You can get to almost all these American stallions for less, and many times less than half, the amount you'd pay to go to Frankel.

Last edited by Fager Fan; 01-14-2018 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:37 PM   #18
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Cracksman may turn out out be the best horse racing if he continues any improvement. He is an absolute monster.
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Old 01-14-2018, 08:22 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan View Post
Maybe. Not bad, but it's a very different breeding game over there. They don't have the pool of stallions that we do.

Since I couldn't find a list just for Europeans, I took the international list from the BH, and here's how Frankel stacks up once I remove the Japanese and Australian sires (for 2017):

In Europe (meaning Ireland and England, and I guess France if only they had any to make the list, which they don't), Frankel is 12th.

Galileo
Fastnet Rock
High Chaparral
Exceed and Excel
Dubawi
Iffradj
Teofilo
Lope de Vega
Dark Angel
Mastercraftsman
Shamardal
Frankel
Choisir
Sea the Stars

He's 12th in Europe, but 65th on the International Sires List. American stallions that rank higher?

Unbridled's Song
Medaglia d'Oro
Street Cry
Candy Ride
Tapit
Kitten's Joy
More Than Ready
Scat Daddy
Hard Spun
Harland's Holiday
Empire Maker
Malibu Moon
Ghostzapper
Curlin
Quality Road
Into Mischief
Street Sense
City Zip
War Front
Street Boss
Uncle Mo
Lookin at Lucky
Giant's Causeway
Speightstown
Bernardini

You can get to almost all these American stallions for less, and many times less than half, the amount you'd pay to go to Frankel.
He's had two crops race. This list is comparing apples to cinderblocks.
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Old 01-14-2018, 11:03 PM   #20
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The excellent ex - Racing Post chief editor James Willoughby with a couple of Frankel related articles - also has some good other stuff on that site including global rankings of Trainers , Jockeys . Sires & Owners. James is a bit of a maths buff and also does some bloodstock / breeze up consultancy as well.
Think he is writing a Handicapping / Betting book just now. And has re-started his Countdown To The Run For The Roses again this year. Takes a big interest in US racing as well as the Global scene.
TRC is a good site.

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/a...-time-believe/

https://www.thoroughbredracing.com/a...even-uncle-mo/

Last edited by ARAZI91; 01-14-2018 at 11:04 PM.
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:40 AM   #21
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He's had two crops race. This list is comparing apples to cinderblocks.
It could be comparing apples to cinderblocks when you compare the mares Frankel was bred to and who the others on the list were bred to. So there's no real perfect system. As I said, in Europe, they have a far smaller pool and all the elite congregate and they can virtually make a stallion in ways we don't see over here, where our top stallions are far more likely to earn their way up the ladder.

Having just two crops to race usually only affects total earnings, not percentages. But I've found a good list at TDN and his percentages are quite good. It may not happen with him, as he may've continued to have gotten top mares in full books in years 3 and 4, but here early top stallions usually have a couple lean years before bouncing back. We'll have to see if he now has a couple lean years or continues to put out the same percentages.

I liked him a lot better than Sea the Stars because he possessed more speed than is usually seen in top European horses. But Sea the Stars has one thing going for him right now that I think would be important to Europeans, which is average winning distance of 10+ furlongs. Galileo likewise has that kind of average distance capabilities in his offspring. Dubawi is close to 9f. Frankel is sitting around the mile mark. Will his offspring do well at the longer distances and how will that affect his overall future at stud?
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Old 01-15-2018, 11:10 AM   #22
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10 replies and nobody has come up with the answer how is Frankel doing at stud?

Google is your friend:

https://www.racingpost.com/profile/h...eny-statistics

His stud fee went up for the first time ever starting this year...it had been at around $170,000 since he started at stud and will now be around $240,000 for 2018...
overpriced if you ask me.

Has sired 2 group one winners so far

Soul stirring who won the Japanese oaks in May

And Cracksman who took the champions stakes at ascot in October.

After that some group winners and some decent winners but overall.....

I,d rather use Dubawi if I had a good mare in Europe. Proven high class sire.

Allan
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Old 01-18-2018, 12:57 PM   #23
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Dream Castle 4-1 son of Frankel
racing now @ 8f T
Dubai 7th Global Foundries Semi-conductor Handicap $135K
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Old 01-19-2018, 06:04 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by biggestal99 View Post
overpriced if you ask me.

Has sired 2 group one winners so far

Soul stirring who won the Japanese oaks in May

And Cracksman who took the champions stakes at ascot in October.

After that some group winners and some decent winners but overall.....

I,d rather use Dubawi if I had a good mare in Europe. Proven high class sire.

Allan

Good spot Allan

And agree Dubawi's progeny in UK / IRE Flat Turf and AW have been hitting at bang on 20% from all runs the last two seasons - tremendous strike rate and profitable on Betfair with an ROI of 11% since 2013.

I cash many good bets on Dubawi maidens on their second run.

There is a lot of hype attached to the "Frankel Factor" and generally his progeny now are over-priced creating opportunities especially in maidens where there are progeny of those such as Dubawi and others. It will continue this upcoming season all across Europe.
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