Should this guy be ruled off for repeated drug violations?

[Rocklane]

Originally Posted by DanG

If anyone has any brainstorms on the medicating of thoroughbreds, may I suggest posting on the DRF Steve Crist blog as he is inviting comments for an August speech on the issue.

What is your take DanG? I understand from your earlier post that you feel the fines were not an effective deterent. What else should be done.

I actually do not like the fact of how cynical I have become, but I have suspicions even when I win.

[riskman]

Originally Posted by Black Ruby

When a horse gets disqualified, the monies get redistributed, except to the horseplayer who had a ticket not including the offender. Why not make trainers be bonded so that when disqualified for a med violation, the trainer's bond pays the players who now hold winning tickets? Bet there wouldn't be nearly as many med violations if this were the rule.

I do not think you will find a Surety that would issue a Guarantee Bond for an illegal act.

[phatbastard]

just wondering, how many of those wonder horses may have been owned by this guy

http://www.tampabaydowns.com/Racing/...rdAverill.aspx

[Spectacular Sid]

Here's a funny line from a Blood-Horse story about Ziadie: “When you are on top, everyone wants to see you fall,” he said on July 9 when asked about the heavy suspension.

The HEAVY SUSPENSION?

[Valuist]

Where is the constantly in denial crowd? The ones who whine about too many posters claiming too many trainers drug horses? Yeah, its normal to see a guy win with 45% of his starters (and we aren't talking small sample sizes) like he's had at meets in the past. Hopefully the in denial crowd is finally waking up that these guys are blatant cheaters.

[Grits]

I like this one the best. Though, I'd love for someone to explain to me the correlation between one's accounting and one's arm length list of illegal raceday postives.

According to the hearing report, Ziadie told DPMW officials that “one reason for all of his drug positives was that his accounting and management is ‘in chaos.’ He stated that he has since hired a new accountant.”

I don't know about the rest of you guys, but my accountant knows --0-- about veterinary medicine.

Maybe the new accountant will be a veterinarian holding an MBA.

Its oddly convenient how often trainers BLAME their accountants. If you don't know how to run a business, you have no business in business.

This man is dumber than a stump. He doesn't even have enough sense to construct a believable lie.

[cj]

Originally Posted by Grits

This man is dumber than a stump. He doesn't even have enough sense to construct a believable lie.

Unfortunately, he is smart enough to fleece fellow horsemen out of large sums of money.

[Cangamble]

Originally Posted by cj

Unfortunately, he is smart enough to fleece fellow horsemen out of large sums of money.

You don't need brains to do that, just desire to do so.

[DanG]

Originally Posted by Rocklane

What is your take DanG? I understand from your earlier post that you feel the fines were not an effective deterent. What else should be done.

I actually do not like the fact of how cynical I have become, but I have suspicions even when I win.

I wish I had an all inclusive answer Rock. In fact; I wish I had ANY answer!

I just spout off without having any real solutions that I think are viable to be honest. Someone much smarter then myself (that’s leaves 99% of the population) will eventually lead this sport from a national perspective and I just hope it happens in our lifetime.

Speaking of ‘spouting off…

Drugging race horses has been around since wagering has been involved. It’s just a fact of life when humans and potential wealth meet; someone will try and gain an edge by whatever means. Were obviously not alone in this fact as anyone who thinks the Olympics with their sophisticated testing are actually clean is delusional.

Follow the money…

Drug creation will ALWAYS outpace drug testing because that’s were the greatest profit is. The suspensions as currently administered are borderline useless. Virtually every single trainer who most cappers in a blind poll would label as serious move-up types have had multiple violations of various degrees. We didn’t need the positive tests btw to verify what we already “knew”. The suspensions are little more then forced (and normally) long overdue vacations and between cell phones and digital video they can still perform their stable managing duties from the Bahamas.

Follow the money…

Most people see issues through their own narrow prism and I’m certainly guilty of that. The players perspective is my concern and when a recent claim is laced with cobra venom, EPO, their genitalia rubbed with cayenne pepper, electricity shot through their body, ailing joints tapped, milkshakes to artificially force them beyond natures pain threshold etc…etc…Its FRAUD on the betting public and the defenseless animal is left to suffer the consequences and it gives the wing nuts at PETA more ammunition to lobby against us.

Follow the money…

Money…money is what drives people to cheat and severe fines is what ‘may’ make them possibly think twice. It’s the classic domino effect on the backside of owners wanting to win and trainers trying to keep them satisfied by whatever means to keep paying that day money. If trainer X is winning at 53% for a meet (impossible btw in real terms) then owner Y might want to lead his string to the dark side.

The track is also in a precarious spot; if you’re in the mid-Atlantic region (long believed to be a haven for the super-trainer) filling races is dog eat dog. If you start playing the bad cop and drop the hammer (without fellow jurisdictions following your lead) good luck filling races. The vans and syringes will be leaving in the middle of night and your superiors will be looking for a new sheriff.

Follow the money…

In an ideal world; you put such teeth in the fines that they actually wind up funding the testing process. Test results MUST be published btw. Even in our major races where testing is being done the test results are being kept “hermetically sealed in a mayonnaise jar on Funk & Wagnall's front porch” as Carson used to say. It’s our dirty little secret that no one really wants to discuss in public. All the things we often discuss that seem so far out of reach. A centralized policy for a sport that has 37 different rule books.

Everyone involved has so much to lose / and or ultimately gain…

• The animal who provides the show suffers.
• Defrauding the betting public.
• The clean trainer / owner are dealt marked cards as a reward for having integrity.
• The rider risks his life when the animal can no longer read natures signals to shut it down.
• We continually give ammunition to groups who want our great sport abolished and our political clout of yesterday is increasingly in the pocket of casino, lottery and other narrow minded lobbyists.

Ultimately a waste of bandwidth and the time of anyone who graciously read all this dribble. Solutions must come from someone with far more vision than I; but even more important then that ‘ideal’ would be progress and believe it or not…our sport has made “some”. One more thing… if you want to find the root cause & effect...follow the money.

[Cangamble]

Wouldn't it be great if an ex vet or an ex trainer wrote a tell all book?

But look at the flack Shane Sellers got for admitting to using buzzers.

[kenwoodallpromos]

"http://tampabaydowns.com/documents/Racing/TBD_StallApp07-08.pdf"
The 1st sentence says owner and trainer will abide by all FL PM rules and regulations; 1st pragraph says stalls are revocable at any time, and says trainer is resonsible for employee actions (I assume that means accountant also!). All tracks have similar language. TBC, Calder, GP can revokle all of his stalls today, and allow stall to his owners' horses if they go to another trainer.
Fl can change rules to add 2lbs for each violation in the most recent Fl meet. They can also raise fines to 60% of TOTAL PURSE upon finding violation before or after race or in detention barn.
How long will owners stay with cheating trainers when they have to add 4-6 lbs carry weight on every horse under a trainer, pay for horse, trainer, and employees to live off-track, and pay fine equal to winning purse whether the horse wins or even runs?
We on this forum knows who many of the blantant cheaters are who violated banned substance rules. Toby Keith owned 2 of those horses in violation during the same LAD stakes race..

[Bochall]

It all started with LASIX ya'll...the gateway drug of the American thoroughbred. Diuretics flush the body (and take traces of other drugs with it). Euros don't use lasix, and the German breeding program will not allow a sire to stand in that country if he has EVER run with race day medication. The flip side is: how many good German sires are there? Acatenango, is he German or South American?

[DeanT]

Originally Posted by DanG

Ultimately a waste of bandwidth and the time of anyone who graciously read all this dribble.

That is some-kinda good dribble!

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by DanG

Follow the money…

Money…money is what drives people to cheat and severe fines is what ‘may’ make them possibly think twice. Everyone involved has so much to lose / and or ultimately gain…

• The animal who provides the show suffers.
• Defrauding the betting public.
• The clean trainer / owner are dealt marked cards as a reward for having integrity.
• The rider risks his life when the animal can no longer read natures signals to shut it down.
• We continually give ammunition to groups who want our great sport abolished and our political clout of yesterday is increasingly in the pocket of casino, lottery and other narrow minded lobbyists.

ney.

A well thought out post with very strong points. I wish that I could have formulated them as well as you have.

[Paseana]

Here's a quote from pedigreequery.com:

"German Racehorse Legend, Three times Horse of the Year in Germany and Champion-Sire 1993,1995,1997,1999.
ACATENANGO was pensioned at the age of 22 at Stud Faehrhof due to fertility problems.
Died 2.4.2005 humanely destroyed after accident in Paddock."

I do believe that Monsun, the sire of Manduro, Schiaparelli, and Shirocco, still stands in Germany, but Manduro is now in Ireland, and Shirocco stands at Dalham Hall in England for Darley. There's no reference to where Schiaparelli now stands, but Darley is listed as his owner, so Dalham Hall is likely for him as well.

Silvano, the German-bred Arlington Million winner of 2001, is now in South Africa.

Speaking of Monsun, I read a year or two ago that he was definitely on Ouija Board's dance card. I believe she had her first breeding to another stallion (can't for the life of me remember who or when), but she was supposed to go to Monsun for her second. There's no progeny listed for her yet.