Should this guy be ruled off for repeated drug violations?

[BIG49010]

The way horses change form at Tampa, I would question if they test at all.

[bishlap]

[QUOTE=rrbauer]This is pretty astounding stuff. Where are the people who are supposed to be "cleaning up" the game?

http://www.paulickreport.com/blog/zi...ions-on-chaos/

it's a losing battle... my only suggestion is to handicap for the druggies.

[kenwoodallpromos]

As long as the fines are 3 or 4 suspensions running CONCURRENT INSTEAD OF CONSECUTIVE, there is no disincentive to jacking up all his horses. Some of his violations are in the same limited time periods, for the same drugs, different horses.
Being able to dope up 3 different horses at the same time with the same drug and getting only 1 suspension in FLorida, It would not surprise me if Tom Schell is the only honest trainer in the state!
Don't the tracks have the power to use the morals clause in the licenses to bar them totally?

[takeout]

What a sham all of this stuff is. Trainer suspensions are a complete joke. I wonder why they bother testing at all.

I actually doubt that this guy is all that unusual. Many more records like his could probably be found and some maybe a lot worse. Maybe that’s one of the reasons the rulings aren’t more assessable to the public.

I also wonder how much stuff they don’t get caught for. I’ve charted out a few trainers over the years that have done some pretty amazing things. I’ve also seen a lot of them come to a fairly sudden stop. Did they get “the talking to” from the stews, or what? I’m always baffled when I see one of these types suddenly forget how to train.

[CincyHorseplayer]

For the record I bet every Saturday throughout Tampa's winter/spring meet and I had more success betting against Ziadie horses than being surprised by their turn of form.Their prices were ridiculous when they didn't figure.

But as I said I didn't bet everyday.

[jotb]

Only Ziadie! I believe Jamie Ness was under investigation in Tampa as well. Not sure of that outcome but you have to wonder about Florida racing. There is no horse racing commission. With so many jockeys that filter into Florida from either Mexico or South America, I wouldn't be surpised if Florida would give a jockey license to someone without a visa or social. Just imagine wagering on an illegal immigrant jockey.

[DanG]

If anyone has any brainstorms on the medicating of thoroughbreds, may I suggest posting on the DRF Steve Crist blog as he is inviting comments for an August speech on the issue.

Posted by Steven Crist on Jul 2, 2009 ~ I've been invited to speak at the Jockey Club’s Round Table Conference in Saratoga Aug. 23 about “the way Thoroughbred racing medication issues are perceived by bettors, the public and the media.”

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by CincyHorseplayer

For the record I bet every Saturday throughout Tampa's winter/spring meet and I had more success betting against Ziadie horses than being surprised by their turn of form.Their prices were ridiculous when they didn't figure.

But as I said I didn't bet everyday.

I bet against him a few times and won........but just the fact that he was in a race at Tampa was a pain in the ass........... there is another female trainer down there that was the same way........ but she wasn't as prominent this year............

I started looking elsewhere, when I used to love Tampa........I don't get enough time to play anymore and when I do I don't want to have to worry about guys like this beating me because I haven't been following the meet as close as I used to.........

[statepierback]

There will always be trainers who will be ahead of the curve and hit some home runs. That's not changing. The structure of how the industry deals with this needs to be adjusted. Testing, fines, violations, the courts, rules etc, ect, need some tweeking.
What if we make everything legal. Tell the public exactly what today's treatment will be . Full discloser. We may learn a few things to help rebuild the structure to a more functional system.
Cruel? Allow the horseman to to police themselves for awhile. Allow the vets to study for the future. And give the betting public a better shot at cashing a ticket.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Either there are not enough honest trainers to standup to the cheaters or the lax rules, or else racing is so riddled with "track politics" that rules cannot be changed.
One racing rule that I know has been enforced since I have been in the game is "Divide and Conquer".
"Thank you for the $15 billion in handle. Now get out of our face as we increase purses."

[fmolf]

Originally Posted by statepierback

There will always be trainers who will be ahead of the curve and hit some home runs. That's not changing. The structure of how the industry deals with this needs to be adjusted. Testing, fines, violations, the courts, rules etc, ect, need some tweeking.
What if we make everything legal. Tell the public exactly what today's treatment will be . Full discloser. We may learn a few things to help rebuild the structure to a more functional system.
Cruel? Allow the horseman to to police themselves for awhile. Allow the vets to study for the future. And give the betting public a better shot at cashing a ticket.

A very interesting idea.That would at least level the playing field except for the safety of the horses and jockeys.I believe more breakdowns occur because of medications(Legal and illegal)so this would pose an added hazard to both jockey and horse.
I think they need stiffer suspensions and every horse that tests positive in a trainers barn should also be suspended from competition.This would hit the owners where it hurt in the pocketbook as the bills remain constant but no money coming in via purses.Trainer suspensions alone are a joke these super trainers nowadays can run their operation from afar with a cell phone and a spare battery. I think by putting the owners horse on suspension the owners would force the trainers to clean up their act or lose horses to other good "clean" trainers

[Black Ruby]

If an owner uses a trainer with x number of suspensions with y time, how about suspending the owner, too, on the next violation? That would put some pressure on. Of course, Curlin and Rachel would probably never have been sent to Assmussen.

[kenwoodallpromos]

Great idea, except that TRACKS and boards themselves have extreme fear of many kinds of disclosure. They do not publish a number of helpful things, like workout comments; finish times; meds; past violations; who the exercise rider is; necropsy info; numer of breakdowns and injuries listed by trainer.
The whole idea of the bread and butter of racing, claiming, is secrecy, so you get a pig in a poke and random luck if the horse you claim is fit. That is juast another way racing favors the old school and prolific trainer and owner!
IMHO, since Paulick knows the violations and prints them, someone should start a subcriber pay service to access violations by trainer coupled with assistant trainer violations. A good list of overage violations may give a good idea of the significant "stamina" drug that a stable is using.
You can get an idea of this trainer's drug of choice by his violations.

[CryingForTheHorses]

I am saddened and shocked at what I have read.

[Jeff P]

I am saddened and shocked at what I have read.

I am saddened too. However I am not the least bit surprised at what I have read.

It has to stop. Racing needs to be regulated in such a way that there are no questions whatsoever about the integrity of the game.

Obviously we don't have that now.

http://www.horseplayersassociation.com


-jp

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