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Old 04-30-2018, 04:41 AM   #1
DGroundhog
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Win Odds Whiners - helping or hurting?

If you attend the race track on at least a semi-regular basis - do you think those that constantly complain about EVERYTHING are hurting or helping the game?

This is most prevalent among those whining about changes to win odds and the 'late money' - so why are these people continuing to play horses to win?

Shouldn't they start focusing on other pools less affected by late 'win odds changes'?

Look, there is no shortage of people who constantly complain at the race track. They will find ANYTHING to whine about. We all know it. We all low key hate them for their constant complaints about EVERYTHING.

People like this hurt the industry as a whole. If a new, prospective player arrives at the racetrack intrigued by the possibility of putting their skill against the larger pool of players instead of playing against 'the house' and you get a few vocal idiots who never shut up about the odds, the trainers, the jockeys being 'against them', doesn't that hurt the potential growth of the industry?

Are a certain group of players keeping new players away and harming the industry as a whole with their constant complaints and sabotaging on the industry?

I think this a fair question. There are other pools to play besides the 'win' pool.
Many of them present better opportunity given takeout rates and minimum wagers.

Are these people so dumb as to not understand there are ways to negate advantages possible 'whales' take advantage of?

This is a great sport. With proper marketing (showing major sporting events, especially PPV MMA/Boxing matches) the sport should not suffer, but with a small but vocal group of chronic whiners it seems there is bad juju to overcome.

I realize that even in an evenly matched 10 horse field there is a good chance that 90% of the bettors are going to be upset that they lost.

....but the constant and incessant whining by some who will complain even when they win is NOT good for the industry. Shouldn't bettors take some responsibility for their wagers?

Even if the whiners are concerned about 'whales' - aren't there ways to negate the advantage the 'whales' have? I mean, 'whales' handicapping themselves by taking 'advantage' of increased takeouts of win pools don't seem that smart to me if a PK4 pool is available.

'Whales' don't gain any advantage in a PK4 pool.

Shouldn't the constant whiners just accept that maybe they suck at handicapping races? If they really think there is a bias against them due to 'whales', shouldn't they play a pool that 'whales' DON'T have an advantage in?

I think these chronic whiners are driving people away from the game. Even lottery and pull tab players don't whine like this, and they have much higher takeout rates to play against.

Whiners are hurting the industry. They make going to the track less enjoyable. Wouldn't it be better if they just went away?

Last edited by DGroundhog; 04-30-2018 at 04:53 AM.
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Old 04-30-2018, 05:55 AM   #2
Andy Asaro
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People complain/boo in Baseball, Football, and other sports. If anything Horseplayers/Gamblers don't complain enough IMO
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Old 04-30-2018, 06:03 AM   #3
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Real issues need addressed. But I know the folks you are talking about. They are walking around on a 24 hour suicide watch and everything "Sucks"!
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:11 AM   #4
TiffaniO
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Originally Posted by DGroundhog View Post
If you attend the race track on at least a semi-regular basis - do you think those that constantly complain about EVERYTHING are hurting or helping the game?

This is most prevalent among those whining about changes to win odds and the 'late money' - so why are these people continuing to play horses to win?

Shouldn't they start focusing on other pools less affected by late 'win odds changes'?

Look, there is no shortage of people who constantly complain at the race track. They will find ANYTHING to whine about. We all know it. We all low key hate them for their constant complaints about EVERYTHING.

People like this hurt the industry as a whole. If a new, prospective player arrives at the racetrack intrigued by the possibility of putting their skill against the larger pool of players instead of playing against 'the house' and you get a few vocal idiots who never shut up about the odds, the trainers, the jockeys being 'against them', doesn't that hurt the potential growth of the industry?

Are a certain group of players keeping new players away and harming the industry as a whole with their constant complaints and sabotaging on the industry?

I think this a fair question. There are other pools to play besides the 'win' pool.
Many of them present better opportunity given takeout rates and minimum wagers.

Are these people so dumb as to not understand there are ways to negate advantages possible 'whales' take advantage of?

This is a great sport. With proper marketing (showing major sporting events, especially PPV MMA/Boxing matches) the sport should not suffer, but with a small but vocal group of chronic whiners it seems there is bad juju to overcome.

I realize that even in an evenly matched 10 horse field there is a good chance that 90% of the bettors are going to be upset that they lost.

....but the constant and incessant whining by some who will complain even when they win is NOT good for the industry. Shouldn't bettors take some responsibility for their wagers?

Even if the whiners are concerned about 'whales' - aren't there ways to negate the advantage the 'whales' have? I mean, 'whales' handicapping themselves by taking 'advantage' of increased takeouts of win pools don't seem that smart to me if a PK4 pool is available.

'Whales' don't gain any advantage in a PK4 pool.

Shouldn't the constant whiners just accept that maybe they suck at handicapping races? If they really think there is a bias against them due to 'whales', shouldn't they play a pool that 'whales' DON'T have an advantage in?

I think these chronic whiners are driving people away from the game. Even lottery and pull tab players don't whine like this, and they have much higher takeout rates to play against.

Whiners are hurting the industry. They make going to the track less enjoyable. Wouldn't it be better if they just went away?
Preach Groundhog!

If the whales went away then they’d complain about small pools. It would always be something. I can see complaining if they actually thought there was past posting. However most seem to think it’s the whales moving the odds. Just pick more winners than them... survival of the fittest.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:53 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by TiffaniO View Post
Preach Groundhog!

If the whales went away then they’d complain about small pools. It would always be something. I can see complaining if they actually thought there was past posting. However most seem to think it’s the whales moving the odds. Just pick more winners than them... survival of the fittest.
Just pick more winners than them? Hysterical.

The problem is when you do pick winners your price gets killed by “them”

With Favs winning in the 40+ percent range, there is no longer separation.

There is no dumb money..........anymore.....
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:55 AM   #6
TiffaniO
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Just pick more winners than them? Hysterical.

The problem is when you do pick winners your price gets killed by “them”

With Favs winning in the 40+ percent range, there is no longer separation.

There is no dumb money..........anymore.....
They can’t bet every horse. So they are picking more winners if they drive down all the prices. As Groundhog said, if you don’t like it, either play another pool or don’t play the races.

You can blame winning favorites on racing secretaries and how they write races. 99% of players are going to lose over time. Why does someone think they are good enough to be in that 1%?

Last edited by TiffaniO; 04-30-2018 at 07:58 AM.
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Old 04-30-2018, 07:57 AM   #7
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Originally Posted by TiffaniO View Post
They can’t bet every horse. So they are picking more winners if they drive down all the prices. As Groundhog said, if you don’t like it, either play another pool or don’t play the races.

You can blame winning favorites on racing secretaries and how they write races.
We should all have to play the same gambling game which is picking winners. What we have now is high volume players playing to break even or even lose a little cuz the rebates make it extremely profitable.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:00 AM   #8
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We should all have to play the same gambling game which is picking winners. What we have now is high volume players playing to break even or even lose a little cuz the rebates make it extremely profitable.
Blame your state for that.

Do you think if you went to a casino you’d be playing the same game as the high rollers? I think not... this is the same as most other gambling business models.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:00 AM   #9
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Preach Groundhog!

If the whales went away then they’d complain about small pools. It would always be something. I can see complaining if they actually thought there was past posting. However most seem to think it’s the whales moving the odds. Just pick more winners than them... survival of the fittest.


You just stated that you are getting rebates of 12 to 20% and screaming survival of the fittest. You aren't the fittest, you live in the right state.
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:02 AM   #10
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Blame your state for that.

Do you think if you went to a casino you’d be playing the same game as the high rollers? I think not... this is the same as most other gambling business models.
Casino you're playing against the house not other people. Big difference. Rebates are akin to giving 20 players in the world series of poker an extra card. Pretty sure those people will end up making up most of the final table.

I don't blame anyone for getting them. But, if you want to grow the game is has to be lower takeout for everyone IMO
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Old 04-30-2018, 08:03 AM   #11
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You just stated that you are getting rebates of 12 to 20% and screaming survival of the fittest. You aren't the fittest, you live in the right state.
There’s my rebate grid. I play mainly tris supers and pick 4s.

Blame your state, it’s legislature and lobbyists... and the tracks behind the scenes holding you back.

It is survival of the fittest. I cash enough tickets to wager about 500k a year and I make $48k a year at my day job. So it’s not like I have tens of thousands to deposit.

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Old 04-30-2018, 08:55 AM   #12
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You just stated that you are getting rebates of 12 to 20% and screaming survival of the fittest. You aren't the fittest, you live in the right state.
Its just like I live in the right state for exchange wagering.

Exchange wagering should be available to all.

PM rebates should be available to all.

very simple.

Allan
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Old 04-30-2018, 09:10 AM   #13
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If you attend the race track on at least a semi-regular basis - do you think those that constantly complain about EVERYTHING are hurting or helping the game?
Not nearly as much as the "game" is hurting the game.
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Old 04-30-2018, 09:13 AM   #14
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Not nearly as much as the "game" is hurting the game.
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Old 04-30-2018, 09:17 AM   #15
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whether I wager or not makes no real difference right now, the tracks dont rely on me to wager for any reason, they rely on the CRW teams.

Thats the model that sustains the industry so what I do is not relevant.

I dont really bet win anymore. I have to at least go to the pick 3 or trifecta but I believe even some CRW teams have access to how many combinations of what have been bet so that may be fools gold trying to find value.

I play mostly contests now, CRW teams cant touch those,......yet.
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