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Old 02-26-2019, 10:45 AM   #9901
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I believe effect comes before cause as long as you are time traveling.
You are not far from the truth.
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:18 PM   #9902
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But Mr. Wanna-be Scientist, sir, Time is "written" in MOTION. Without Matter moving through Space (or sky to us earthlings), there would be no Time.

What are you going to do now...deny that the earth is in Motion? That sun itself isn't in motion? That the stars aren't in motion?



But what "yellow" does remind me of is you!

Accept the terms to my wager and let us get the show on the road.
First of all the sky only appears to move because of the earths' rotation

The earths' direction of rotation takes place in the 3 dimension of space, and a 4th dimension, time "which also contains" the first 3 and permits "degrees of freedom"

...In many scientific fields, the degrees of freedom of a system is the number of parameters of the system that may vary independently. For example, a point in the plane has two degrees of freedom for translation: its two coordinates; a non-infinitesimal object on the plane might have additional degrees of freedoms related to its orientation.

Our local progression of befores and afters also includes the nearby cosmos, and all of that "move.s" along with the earth and you and every particle of matter and energy at the same rate of before and after..

You need a much larger frame of reference than OUR planet spinning on it's axis.

Claiming the future "approaches and passes thru us to transform all around us into the present and then the past(ugh!) "

assumes you are not part of that local rate of before and after of every bit of reality surrounding us

You are bunky

...Time is often thought of as the fourth dimension. Time plays a key role as a dimension in mathematical formulations of physical laws and theories such as general relativity and string theory.

Tomorrow, today and yesterday are simply convenient terms relative to us to identify the progression of events. As is the future, the present and the past.

Last edited by hcap; 02-26-2019 at 12:22 PM.
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Old 02-26-2019, 12:56 PM   #9903
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First of all the sky only appears to move because of the earths' rotation

The earths' direction of rotation takes place in the 3 dimension of space, and a 4th dimension, time "which also contains" the first 3 and permits "degrees of freedom"

...In many scientific fields, the degrees of freedom of a system is the number of parameters of the system that may vary independently. For example, a point in the plane has two degrees of freedom for translation: its two coordinates; a non-infinitesimal object on the plane might have additional degrees of freedoms related to its orientation.

Our local progression of befores and afters also includes the nearby cosmos, and all of that "move.s" along with the earth and you and every particle of matter and energy at the same rate of before and after..

You need a much larger frame of reference than OUR planet spinning on it's axis.

Claiming the future "approaches and passes thru us to transform all around us into the present and then the past(ugh!) "

assumes you are not part of that local rate of before and after of every bit of reality surrounding us

You are bunky

...Time is often thought of as the fourth dimension. Time plays a key role as a dimension in mathematical formulations of physical laws and theories such as general relativity and string theory.

Tomorrow, today and yesterday are simply convenient terms relative to us to identify the progression of events. As is the future, the present and the past.
I never said anything about the sky moving, so what are you talking about? Are you confusing Matter that moves through Space for Space itself?

And I do have a much larger frame of reference -- the sun, moon and stars -- all of which are Matter in MOTION. MOTION thru Space is necessary for Time.. Do you agree or disagree?

So, are you still wearing that yellow stripe down your back or are you going to accept the terms to my wager which I have posted twice in the last couple of days?
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Old 02-26-2019, 01:02 PM   #9904
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I never said anything about the sky moving, so what are you talking about? Are you confusing Matter that moves through Space for Space itself?
Quote:
Originally Posted by You
The Future always come to us out of one direction to become the Past in the opposite direction. The Future always comes to us from the East to become the Past in the West.
East, and west, are relative terms referring the earth's rotation around an arbitrary pole.

Last edited by hcap; 02-26-2019 at 01:05 PM.
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Old 02-26-2019, 01:30 PM   #9905
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East, and west, are relative terms referring the earth's rotation around an arbitrary pole.
So? Now you're confusing the stream of Time for the sky?

And where in the above "relative terms" does the sun rise and set in your universe?
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Old 02-26-2019, 02:11 PM   #9906
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So? Now you're confusing the stream of Time for the sky?

And where in the above "relative terms" does the sun rise and set in your universe?
You are by saying...
Quote:
Originally Posted by You
The Future always come to us out of one direction to become the Past in the opposite direction. The Future always comes to us from the East to become the Past in the West.
You are using the 3 spacial dimensions to help you figure out time's prediction.

Why not buy a clock?

What would happen if you took your trusty sun dial and put it on a giant merry go round, going opposite the earths rotation?

Would time then go in the same direction every one elsse experiences? Thew correct time direction.

Before arriving before after?
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Old 02-26-2019, 02:51 PM   #9907
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You are by saying...
You are using the 3 spacial dimensions to help you figure out time's prediction.
Why not buy a clock?

What would happen if you took your trusty sun dial and put it on a giant merry go round, going opposite the earths rotation?

Would time then go in the same direction every one elsse experiences? Thew correct time direction.

Before arriving before after?[/QUOTE]

What unmitigated drivel!

What would happen if you took a sundial and stuck it where the sun never shines and you went for a merry-go-round ride? I wonder what that would do to your day!

The irrefutable fact is: Tomorrow will arrive to us out of the eastern sky, meet us where we are to become Today and eventually recede deeply into the western sky to meet its demise by becoming Yesterday. This cycle by the way occurs every 24 hours -- for your info.

And despite your stupid word games, everyone here knows this to be an ironclad fact.

So, remind us what your "arrow of time" looks like again. And this time around, include the Present into your absurd theory.

And are you going to accept my terms to the wager? Or are you going to punk out before everyone? Are you really going to show everyone what a fraud and fake you are by cowering in your safe space somewhere? I'm giving you a golden opportunity to prove that you're the genuine article -- the real deal. You'd be a fool to squander this opportunity.
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Old 02-26-2019, 03:32 PM   #9908
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BUNKY, NO MATTER WHAT YOU CLAIM, THE FUTURE DOES NOT PRECEDE THE PRESENT NOR THE PRESENT PRECEDE THE PAST

Boxcarian word games only

Otherwise prove it.
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Old 02-26-2019, 04:03 PM   #9909
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BUNKY, NO MATTER WHAT YOU CLAIM, THE FUTURE DOES NOT PRECEDE THE PRESENT NOR THE PRESENT PRECEDE THE PAST

Boxcarian word games only

Otherwise prove it.
I just have with Mother Nature. Tomorrow comes to us out of the East and becomes Today when it meets us where we are presently and then Today recedes into the West to become Yesterday.

Remind us what your arrow to time looks again? You're Shirley keeping this a very big Top Secret. Wonder why? It couldn't be that you haven't figured out a home for the Present, could it?
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Old 02-26-2019, 08:09 PM   #9910
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I just have with Mother Nature. Tomorrow comes to us out of the East and becomes Today when it meets us where we are presently and then Today recedes into the West to become Yesterday.

Remind us what your arrow to time looks again? You're Shirley keeping this a very big Top Secret. Wonder why? It couldn't be that you haven't figured out a home for the Present, could it?
Tomorrow, today, and yesterday all started in the morning at 12 am before each ending at midnight 11:59 PM. Before, during and after. The normal accepted progressiion of time

Yesterday ended when it "became" today and today will then end and when it "becomes" tomorrow. Eh, bunky, your words are not the reality you think they they represent. You twist reality in any backwards boxcarian way you chose.
Quote:
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Causes in the world of human events or activities do not always precede effects.
Always. No ifs ands or any of your butt-heads. Since you are ducking a controlled experiment with clearly defined parameters and definitions,

......if you can prove it I will no longer post here, and on the other hand if you fall on your face you will not.

Nothing more left to say.
Prove your claim if you can.
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Old 02-26-2019, 09:14 PM   #9911
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Tomorrow, today, and yesterday all started in the morning at 12 am before each ending at midnight 11:59 PM. Before, during and after. The normal accepted progressiion of time
But what determines what time of the day it is? Your Mickey Mouse watch? And besides, your nonsense is a non sequitur. We're not talking time zones, we're talking about the flow of time.

Quote:
Yesterday ended when it "became" today and today will then end and when it "becomes" tomorrow. Eh, bunky, your words are not the reality you think they they represent. You twist reality in any backwards boxcarian way you chose.
And when tomorrow arrives, where does it go after it leaves us, Humpty?

Now..LABEL your "yesterday", "today" and tomorrow in terms of the three tenses of time, e..g pas, present and future and tell us exactly where the present is located relative to the past and future?



Always. No ifs ands or any of your butt-heads. Since you are ducking a controlled experiment with clearly defined parameters and definitions,

......if you can prove it I will no longer post here, and on the other hand if you fall on your face you will not.

Nothing more left to say.
Prove your claim if you can.
[/QUOTE]

No, I gave my terms. If I win, you must answer the three questions. If I lose, I will not post here on this thread for one year.
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Last edited by boxcar; 02-26-2019 at 09:18 PM.
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Old 02-26-2019, 09:25 PM   #9912
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BUNKY, NO MATTER WHAT YOU CLAIM, THE FUTURE DOES NOT PRECEDE THE PRESENT NOR THE PRESENT PRECEDE THE PAST

Boxcarian word games only

Otherwise prove it.
I want you to tell us where the Present is relative the Past and Present. Why can't you tell us this? Why are you hiding this? I'm transparent and can tell everyone where the Present is relative the Past and Future.

The Future flows into the Present and this in turn becomes the Past. In other words, Tomorrow becomes Today and Today becomes Yesterday.

Why can't you tell us where the Present is relative to the Past and Future?
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Old 02-26-2019, 10:07 PM   #9913
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LABEL your "yesterday", "today" and tomorrow in terms of the three tenses of time, e..g pas, present and future and tell us exactly where the present is located relative to the past and future?
General relativity reveals that this depends on the reference frames of the observers. An observer in reference frame #1 could observe that event A precedes event B while an observer in reference frame #2 observes event A follows event B.
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Old 02-26-2019, 11:22 PM   #9914
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Wow! We have a giant among gnats in Hank. I bet you could give a rock a run for its money.

In fact, I bet you're so smart that you can demonstrate for us, using the Law of Noncontradiction, how wrong I was in stating that total agnosticism violates this Law.
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Old 02-27-2019, 12:43 AM   #9915
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General relativity reveals that this depends on the reference frames of the observers. An observer in reference frame #1 could observe that event A precedes event B while an observer in reference frame #2 observes event A follows event B.
My original statement was.........

Quote:
Cause(s) are always-ON THE HUMAN SCALE OF EVENTS-before the effect(s) they generated. On the quantum scale there may be uncertainty of causes and effects.
Meaning one Human reference frame, the same local section of the universe with all Human observers traveling at the same non-relativistic velocities.

Last edited by hcap; 02-27-2019 at 12:52 AM.
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