GAPFIRE.COM RIDERS UP TRACK CHATTER

[LAP_520]

Originally Posted by Light

What happened to Patrick the truck driver? Used to play this contest. Was having health issues. I used to like his bitching on both boards. Is he OK?

Patrick ,, alias PKtruckdriver, is back up and going. After some difficult time over the past year and rehabbing in Florida. He has a job driving for ( I believe ) Western Flyer Trucking.... As of Yesterday, he finally made it from OKC to Orlando FL to made his delivery.

I will let him know ( thru facebook) about contests and see if he can find time to compete.

But to answer your question.... he is rolling on down the highway .

[LAP_520]

Have to be VERY, VERY Careful constructing your Pick 4 ticket ... hopefully, Aqueduct will not produce one of these payouts


12/16/2013 @ Mountaineer Races 5 thru 8

DeShawn Parker wins the first, second, and third leg on monster favorites and Kirk Johnson wins the last leg on the P/T Favorite @ 2-1

$2.00 Pick-4 : 3,9 // 3,6 // 1,7 // 1 .. (4 of 4) =
$21.40

[pktruckdriver]

Originally Posted by LAP_520

Patrick ,, alias PKtruckdriver, is back up and going. After some difficult time over the past year and rehabbing in Florida. He has a job driving for ( I believe ) Western Flyer Trucking.... As of Yesterday, he finally made it from OKC to Orlando FL to made his delivery.

I will let him know ( thru facebook) about contests and see if he can find time to compete.

But to answer your question.... he is rolling on down the highway .

Yes , I am lurking, but not playing. Health issues and life has become more serious to me. As for playing contests, as of now , the answer is no, but I wish you all luck.


patrick

[Light]

Nice to hear from you Patrick.

[Track Collector]

Originally Posted by LAP_520

A question was posted on Scratches in the first leg of a Pick-4 ticket by a contestant.

According to the rule : If a horse is deemed scratched or declared a nonstarter prior to the start of the first leg of a pick four race...... the betting will be a refund.


After a Pick-4 starts, if a horse is scratched, or declared a nonstarter, that is on the Pick-4 ticket....that horse is replaced with the designated horse upon which the most wagering money has been registered at the track in the win pool at the close of win pool betting for such race.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////

We have been allowing in this Pick-4 challenge to use the Post Time favorite in the other three legs EVEN on Scratches prior to the start of any Pick 4 races (Early Scratches)... which according to the rule is not allowed if Scratched before the Pick 4 starts.



TO: Governing board members of the Gapfire Ridersup Memorial Aqueduct Pick-4 Challenge

Need Clarification on a scratch in the first leg of a Pick-4 ticket.... is it a refund ? or is it designated horse (PTF)

We have been using the official chart payout numbers for the Pick 4.

One would "hope and expect" that any horses scratched early and therefore not entitled by rule to replacement by the Post Time Favorite (but instead treated instead as refunds) would NOT be included in the listed P4 payout numbers.

Could it be that folks like equibase have been listing incorrect payout numbers all this time? I wonder if anyone on the PaceAdvantage forum would know who to contact to get clarification? One thing I can say is that I have been using the equibase payout numbers for the 3 years I have been scorer of this contest.

[LAP_520]

Okay ,,, I posted the rule in response to a player's question that is on the results thread of Ridersup challenge.

So I did some "research" on results going thru NYRA.com. website. Being that the day has past ,,,, and there is no current results because of no racing, the site transfers me to Equibase.com results.

Interesting find on December 4, 2013 in Aqueduct's late pick-4.

Race 6 ~ #1 Henry's Gal , #5 Chicks in a Pig were scratched at some point.

The winner of Race 6 was #6 Margaret Ownzit As the ($2.80 - 1) P/T Fav


Race 7 ~ #1 Belle Gallantey was scratched at some point.

The winner of Race 7 was #4 Merry Meadow As the ($0.75 - 1 ) P/T Fav.


Race 8 ~ #1A Point Taken, #2B Strong Impact, and all of the Also Eligibles were scratched 11, 12, 13, and 14. at some point


The winner of Race 8 was #2 Compliance Officer --- not the P/T FAV


Race 9 ~ #1 Street Prince (POE) was scratched at some point ............ #1A raced

The winner of Race 9 was #2 Thunder But Norain ~ not the P/T Fav.


NYRA result posted thru Equibase:

$2.00 Pick 4 ... 1/5/6 - 1/4 - 2 - 2 (4 correct) $ 887.00

Based on the above result, on the Ridersup Memorial Pick-4 Challenge
the result would show it as $2 Pick-4 ~ 6,1,5 / 4,1 / 2 / 2 (4 of 4) pays $887.00

**** PLEASE NOTE the P/T FAVORITE or designated horse for a scratched or non starter horse MUST WIN that leg in order for scratched horse number to appear in the results.

So with that real life result and finding two races that the Post Time favorite won their race and scratches were involved, NYRA is replacing in any leg of the Pick-4 with the Post Time Favorite as the designated horse no matter when the horse was scratched.... Early or Late. (INTERESTING)

Apparently NYRA, will offer refunds of a scratched horse in the first leg of the Pick 4 if presented for a refund ( in the contest ... if you repost your Pick-4 ticket before the first leg goes off). Otherwise you are given the P / T Favorite for any and all scratched horses you have on your ticket in the first leg of a Pick 4.



..............

Rules for the Gapfire.com Ridersup Memorial Aqueduct Inner Track Pick-4 Challenge are abiding with NYRA's interpretation .... IMO

LAP_520

[Ted Craven]

To clarify the position of the Contest Administration: there should be no change to the Scratch Rules posted in the Rules and player sign-up/agreement page.

Regardless of when a player makes their final selections - whether the day before, on the Saturday morning before scratches are announced, or any time up until 1 MTP - all scratched horses in any leg are replaced by the Post Time Favourite (PTF). If the PTF wins that leg, all scratched horses count as winning selections for that leg. This is how Equibase reports it, and how Chris has been scoring it for the past 2 years.

Although in real life you could not get a bet down on a scratched horse after it is published as scratched, we have this modified rule to accommodate and encourage participation by those players who for whatever reason must sometimes bet before the final scratches are known. We don't have the resources to check when a horse becomes scratched, nor subsequently check whether each player's selections were posted after or before scratches were known. So scratches in a players selections are replaced by the PTF regardless of when the selection was posted.

That said - please make a habit of checking Scratches before posting your Contest Selections. To help with this, here is a new Thread in this Contest where we'll attempt to post the latest Scratches each Contest Day (though accuracy or timeliness are not guaranteed):

Contest Scratches: http://www.paceadvantage.com/forum/s....php?p=1549902

Here are other resources for obtaining Scratches:

NYRA: http://www.nyra.com/aqueduct/changes/
Equibase: http://www.equibase.com/static/late...gesAQU-USA.html

Thank you!

Ted

[davew]

The previous scratch discussion needs to clarify that if part of entry (POE) runs, the other part of entry scratched stays with running entry (not favorite)

Does anyone know what aqueduct running 'holidays' are included in this contest?

[LAP_520]

Rule 2. The contest will be open on Saturdays, Sundays, and Holidays during the Inner Dirt meet, which will begin on 12/14 and end on a yet-to-be-determined date in March/April 2014. (Subject date will be announce once determined.).


*
Cross referencing NYRA "live racing" calendar with the National Holidays in 2014...there are these Holiday Live Racing cards at Aqueduct.

WEDNESDAY, January 1st, 2014 ~ NEW YEAR'S DAY

MONDAY, January 20th, 2014 ~ MARTIN LUTHER KING DAY

MONDAY, February 17th, 2014 ~ PRESIDENT'S DAY


All three dates show a Stakes Race being run.


Of course, they are all subject to Winter weather conditions that might cause a cancellation of the race card.


** IF Aqueduct is still on the Inner Track in April, 2014

There will be no racing at Aqueduct on PALM SUNDAY- April 13th 2014
There will be no racing at Aqueduct on EASTER SUNDAY-April 20th 2014

*

[LAP_520]

Gapfire.com Ridersup Memorial Aqueduct Inner Track Pick-4 Challenge is not getting off to a smooth start.

On Sunday, 12/22/2013 the late Pick-4 paid $243.50 for a $1 wager.

Race 6 winner
Race 7 winner
Race 8 winner **
Race 9 winner

PLEASE do not throw the blame on Track Collector, Ted Craven, Pace Advantage, or myself or anybody else.... only NYRA's results reporter.

The results on Equibase.com and NYRA.com show the Race 9 payouts as:

$2 Pick 4 5-9-4-5 (4 correct) 487.00

$2 Pick 6 1-7-5-9-4-5 (5 correct) 30.80

$2 Pick 6 1-7-5-9-4-5 (6 correct) 25,451.00


No where do they show what was reported on that day ~ Late Pick 4

$0.50 Pick-4...5/9/2-4,7/5... (4 of 4)...$121.75


I personally sat through the whole race card and reported the gate scratches in race 8 and that the 4 was the overwhelming favorite.

So .. the question is WHY would NYRA show the two scratches in race 8 and report the two scratches to ADW's along with the PTF winner on the day of the races...... but after that day has past ... only show the winners. ????????????????

[Track Collector]

Hello everyone,

After thoughtful deliberations with Ted, it has been collectively decided to continue scoring Pick 4 contest selections using the Daily Racing Form payout numbers, as specified in contest rule #8.

In the world of real wagers, the pari-mutuel system recognizes what Pick 4 selections should receive replacement by the Post Time Favorite, and what ones should be handled as refunds. In the quasi-world of contests, we do not have such benefit, thus we are dependent upon the official data keepers like DRF to have accurate payout information. They (DRF, equibase, etc.) will be the first to tell you they are not responsible/liable for errors contained in their published info, and the contest management team will offer participants that same caveat.

We recognize that after reading our rational, some may still not like this decision. It will however be consistent with how the contest has been scored over the past two years, and with a stance that is essentially black and white, it helps to keep things out of the arena of "subjective judgement", which has the potential for even more problems.

Respectfully,


Chris

[goatchaser]

Probably just me...But still confused. So your saying...As in my case....Sunday in the late Pik 4. In the 8th race I had all 7 horses. I believe it was #2 and # 3 were both scratched at the gate while loading. Now the Post time Fav wins. I recieved payout for 1 dollor. Is that how it will be? No matter the scratches....You will only recieve the win pay out for the original bet made on the Pick 4 Ticket? As in my case...for 1 dollor. Just want to be clear is all. Not debating the rules.

[Light]

I agree with goatchaser. If you want to ignore late scratches, fine. The problem is you are not being consistent.

The current leader would have almost $5K less if you did not award him scratches as he did not have the actual winner in the first Pk4 of the meet,but scratched into a $4 pk4 each worth $1188.He was given the post time favorite in the last leg, which is the way the real world works regardless of the inaccuracies of the drf results.

How can you award some players for scratches and not other players for similar scratches, especially late gate scratches? If someone singled the 2 horse in Sunday's feature, they get nobody? $200 down the tubes. What a joke. Thank God it's not like that in the real world or no one would play. Do it one way for all players. Others wise this contest loses its validity and fairness.

[Light]

The Racing Channel does have the correct results:

http://www.racingchannel.com/archive.../AQU131222.HTM

[MONEY]

Betting, post time favorite & refund rules at below link.

Pick Four, Pick Five, Pick Six, and Grand Slam scratches

For Pick Four, Pick Five, Pick Six and Grand Slam wagers, in the event of a late scratch, the bettor receives the post time favorite. There are no refunds or alternate selections. In the Pick Four there is a mandatory daily payout of the entire pool. In the Pick Five, in the event there are no tickets with five winners, there is a carryover of 100% of the net pool into the next day of the meet. In the Pick Six, in the event there are no tickets with six winners, there is a carryover of 75% of the net pool into the next day of the meet. Should there be three or more cancelled or "no contest" legs in either the Pick Five or Pick Six pools, all bets are refunded.

http://www.nyra.com/belmont/handicapping/wagering-faq/

It looks to me like Equibase is just not reporting the correct results.
I sent them an email asking for an explanation or Dec. 22nds results.
If they reply,I will post it here.