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05-07-2019, 03:53 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,191
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I don't understand some of the harness drivers actions
Case in point. May 6, 2019 Mohawk Race 2
Dan Dube is aboard What Chapter who is the hot 8/5 favorite with the fans. His horse makes a break before the race and is left behind the gate trailing by some 15 lengths.
Now what do you expect Dube to do? A sane horseman would try and ease up with the horse and try to stay as far away from the start pole and not try to beat it. This way at least the fans get their money back in the W/P/S pools and also if the co-favorite wins the race they have a chance in the exotics as well. What does Dube do? He tries to beat the start pole and actually does manage to beat it by a small margin. The judges declare no refunds for the horse.
Here is video of the race:
Enquiry video of the race
Comments please.
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05-08-2019, 07:19 AM
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#2
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Registered Wacko
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Belmont-ish
Posts: 2,242
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The horsemen could not care any less for the fans, I think they’ve made that perfectly clear over the years. Bettors interests mean absolutely ZERO to them. Dube got fifth place money and the fans got stugotz.
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05-08-2019, 10:57 AM
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#3
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 216
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That along with BAGGING races!
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05-08-2019, 11:07 AM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2016
Posts: 24
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Dube probably thought he had the best horse and that he could still win even from far back.
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05-08-2019, 11:59 AM
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#5
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Registered User
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman179
The horsemen could not care any less for the fans, I think they’ve made that perfectly clear over the years. Bettors interests mean absolutely ZERO to them. Dube got fifth place money and the fans got stugotz.
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Well said i have talked to drivers in the past. They only care about themselves. Pools , handle, bettors are furthest from there minds.
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05-08-2019, 03:10 PM
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zman179
The horsemen could not care any less for the fans, I think they’ve made that perfectly clear over the years. Bettors interests mean absolutely ZERO to them. Dube got fifth place money and the fans got stugotz.
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Essentially what they are doing is biting the very hand that feeds them.
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05-08-2019, 03:26 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by swiss cheese
Dube probably thought he had the best horse and that he could still win even from far back.
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Dube is an experienced pilot. He should know when his horse is done and out of the race. I don't know about his horse being the best in the field. That was his first start of the year after a double qualifier. He lost the race by some 11 lengths.
Can you imagine the suckers who bet this horse only to see the horse left behind the gate by some 15 lengths and then see Dube trying to beat the start pole. Wow!
Last edited by Sea Biscuit; 05-08-2019 at 03:27 PM.
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05-08-2019, 03:46 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Biscuit
Dube is an experienced pilot. He should know when his horse is done and out of the race. I don't know about his horse being the best in the field. That was his first start of the year after a double qualifier. He lost the race by some 11 lengths.
Can you imagine the suckers who bet this horse only to see the horse left behind the gate by some 15 lengths and then see Dube trying to beat the start pole. Wow!
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They should fly a rocket into any track with a fair start pole because they don't to race anyway.
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05-08-2019, 04:33 PM
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baconswitchfarm
They should fly a rocket into any track with a fair start pole because they don't to race anyway.
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The fair start pole is to protect the betting public and if you are against it so be it.
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05-08-2019, 06:20 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Biscuit
The fair start pole is to protect the betting public and if you are against it so be it.
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It deters handle and that is why no one else has put one in. It has destroyed the canadian B tracks and has knocked Hoosiers handle by a significant amount. But Hoosier wants to decouple so it will work out ok for them. Mohawk is the only track that has been able to not get destroyed by adding it. Their handle was so high it has only decreased nominally since its installation. Whenever consulted on it by tracks considering it , I advise to only install it if you want to kill your racing. some do
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05-08-2019, 06:41 PM
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#11
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baconswitchfarm
It deters handle and that is why no one else has put one in. It has destroyed the canadian B tracks and has knocked Hoosiers handle by a significant amount. But Hoosier wants to decouple so it will work out ok for them. Mohawk is the only track that has been able to not get destroyed by adding it. Their handle was so high it has only decreased nominally since its installation. Whenever consulted on it by tracks considering it , I advise to only install it if you want to kill your racing. some do
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I don't know how you say it deters handle.
IMHO it (not having a fair start pole) is a surefire way to lose bettors confidence on betting their product.
Was there a study done on the subject or are you just talking from the top of your head?
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05-08-2019, 07:25 PM
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Biscuit
I don't know how you say it deters handle.
IMHO it (not having a fair start pole) is a surefire way to lose bettors confidence on betting their product.
Was there a study done on the subject or are you just talking from the top of your head?
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I'm talking as a person who was consulted when the meadlowlands was being asked to put one in by five people who bet $2 to show every race. It was shot down because it has been shown to knock down handle between 25 and 100 percent within 2 years after implementing.While its a noble but misguided idea, it creates an atmosphere where people can no longer bet decent money. I bet roughly 400k on harness last month and maybe five percent was at mohawk and hoosier. No b tracks in Canada at all. It's not financially feasible to play them.
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05-08-2019, 08:02 PM
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baconswitchfarm
I bet roughly 400k on harness last month
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Taking a quote from one of your recent posts
"They fix every race. Even worse now. Sad"
I have been betting harness racing for the last 38 years. If I believed harness is crooked and they fix races, I would have quit playing it a long time ago and taken up another sport.
Last edited by Sea Biscuit; 05-08-2019 at 08:05 PM.
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05-08-2019, 08:49 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 1,069
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sea Biscuit
Taking a quote from one of your recent posts
"They fix every race. Even worse now. Sad"
I have been betting harness racing for the last 38 years. If I believed harness is crooked and they fix races, I would have quit playing it a long time ago and taken up another sport.
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When you bet yonkers you bet what you think is going to happen in the race not just what looks like the best horse. Everyone knows what tracks have the most fixed races and you adjust your techniques accordingly. When I lived in South Florida one winter I lived next door to a top level jockey. He would come south for Gulfstream. I said one day why dont you go out to Calder if you're here early every year. He said the spanish guys fix every race and they will crowd you and put you into the rail if they think you will run over their money. It's not just harness.
I had a really good month last month so I'm not going to find anything else to follow. When I can make six figures a year doing something besides betting horses I might. More than likely I'll retire before then. A million hours a week gets old .
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05-08-2019, 09:17 PM
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2007
Posts: 8,191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by baconswitchfarm
When you bet yonkers you bet what you think is going to happen in the race not just what looks like the best horse. Everyone knows what tracks have the most fixed races and you adjust your techniques accordingly. When I lived in South Florida one winter I lived next door to a top level jockey. He would come south for Gulfstream. I said one day why dont you go out to Calder if you're here early every year. He said the spanish guys fix every race and they will crowd you and put you into the rail if they think you will run over their money. It's not just harness.
I had a really good month last month so I'm not going to find anything else to follow. When I can make six figures a year doing something besides betting horses I might. More than likely I'll retire before then. A million hours a week gets old .
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Do you even know how many harness drivers it takes to fix just one race?
The good drivers in harness racing make pretty good money and I don't think they will get involved in sham races.
The risk is just too great for them to play with their livelihoods not to speak of their tarnishing their reputation for good.
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