MVR handle decline...

[tcasolo]

According to Paulick Report:

"Hollywood Gaming at Mahoning Valley Race Course in Austintown, Ohio, concluded its winter-spring season on Wednesday, April 24, with solid wagering and racing during the 62-day meet. Wagering per race was down 8% to $116,745 per race despite the track experiencing a number of inclement weather days in both January and February."

“Field size remained strong with 8.12 wagering interests per race, identical to the 2018 number,” said vice president of racing Mark Loewe. “As we look to the fall meet, we are excited by the reception we have received throughout the simulcast network and on track.”

This is the first handle decline since the track opened 5 years ago

I'm not buying the bad weather excuse, nor the claim that the wagering was solid.

This year's weather was no worse than last year when they ran a 25% increase. Plus any cancellations are made up. When comparing similar dates from last year to this year, the daily handle was down for 50% of the racing dates. This with an identical field size both years.

I'm guessing the honeymoon is over.

[46zilzal]

Track makes no sense...Tried it several days over two seasons.ILLOGICAL

[jeebus1083]

Originally Posted by 46zilzal

Track makes no sense...Tried it several days over two seasons.ILLOGICAL

Hi Tim,

Playing MVR is like playing low-stakes no-limit Texas Hold’em: the potential for some hokey results that defy both logic and commonsense. In other words, if someone raises preflop, calling said raise with 8-7 offsuit is a negative -EV move, especially when the preflop raiser has been a rock for a solid 2 hours in the session.

Of course, the donkey calls, flops 8-10-Q, calls my continuation bet, then turns the case 8 to make a set. River dry, and my KK gets cracked by a set of 8s that had no business playing the hand in the first place. “But it’s my lucky hand!” He said... a sure sign that either 1) this was not an ideal table for me to play at or 2) playing $1/$2 blind structure is simply a -EV venture in itself due to the fact that it’s “cheap action” (many players limp in for the minimum, then call a raise or 3bet (re-raise) anyway to see the flop: more players in a hand = danger!) and it attracts a variety of skill levels.

As it relates to racing, the stock quality of the runners is so inconsistent at some tracks - be it due to the track surface, medications, or horse soundness - that you’re destined to lose money betting on it. Not to mention that the pool sizes are anemic and that a single wager can throw the tote askew.

[098poi]

Originally Posted by jeebus1083

Hi Tim,

Playing MVR is like playing low-stakes no-limit Texas Hold’em: the potential for some hokey results that defy both logic and commonsense. In other words, if someone raises preflop, calling said raise with 8-7 offsuit is a negative -EV move, especially when the preflop raiser has been a rock for a solid 2 hours in the session.

Of course, the donkey calls, flops 8-10-Q, calls my continuation bet, then turns the case 8 to make a set. River dry, and my KK gets cracked by a set of 8s that had no business playing the hand in the first place. “But it’s my lucky hand!” He said... a sure sign that either 1) this was not an ideal table for me to play at or 2) playing $1/$2 blind structure is simply a -EV venture in itself due to the fact that it’s “cheap action” (many players limp in for the minimum, then call a raise or 3bet (re-raise) anyway to see the flop: more players in a hand = danger!) and it attracts a variety of skill levels.

As it relates to racing, the stock quality of the runners is so inconsistent at some tracks - be it due to the track surface, medications, or horse soundness - that you’re destined to lose money betting on it. Not to mention that the pool sizes are anemic and that a single wager can throw the tote askew.

I was gonna post that exact thing! You beat me to it.

[lamboguy]

the united states population has gone from 130 million people in 1960 to around 340 million people today.

in 1960 there were over 25,000 people at Belmont race track in 1960 on a friday afternoon, today there isn't 250 people there.

maybe more than 250 for opening day.

[baconswitchfarm]

[QUOTE=tcasolo;2456951]According to Paulick Report:

vice president of racing Mark Loewe.






When you see that you can be sure nothing good is to come

[Robert Fischer]

-8% could mean something or could be meaningless

my own play there was meaningless
109bets , hit fourteen of them (12.84%) ,Bet $529.30 Ret $557.62 ($+28.32) $1.05ROI

[Thomas Roulston]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

the united states population has gone from 130 million people in 1960 to around 340 million people today.

in 1960 there were over 25,000 people at Belmont race track in 1960 on a friday afternoon, today there isn't 250 people there.

maybe more than 250 for opening day.

This is what they get for opening the spring meeting in April instead of the Memorial Day weekend the way they used to. Win or lose, who wants to freeze to death at the racetrack?

NYRA should also bring back the Aqueduct summer meeting, last held in 1976 - but I suppose that's a suitable topic for a different thread.

[Some_One]

Originally Posted by 098poi

I was gonna post that exact thing! You beat me to it.

And this series of 3 posts in exactly why polytrack surfaces were ripped out across America. A track/surface is so unpredictable it must be the surface and surely not the capper.

[porchy44]

They have a "good thing" going. For several months a year, the only 2 tracks running (early card)on Mondays and Tuesdays are Parx and Mahoning.

[tcasolo]

So, Parx with one of the highest takeouts in the industry, and overseen by the corrupt Pennsylvania Racing Commission, has Mondays and Tuesdays to just themselves and MVR for a couple months, yet, MVR and its 8+ field size average is losing share to them.

Not to worry. Mark Loewe says all is well. LOL

[porchy44]

Originally Posted by tcasolo

So, Parx with one of the highest takeouts in the industry, and overseen by the corrupt Pennsylvania Racing Commission, has Mondays and Tuesdays to just themselves and MVR for a couple months, yet, MVR and its 8+ field size average is losing share to them.

Not to worry. Mark Loewe says all is well. LOL

I guess without any perspective you may scoff at that.
Yes, Ex Beulah park (type) horses that were running for 2500 purses now running for
9900 to 32,000 purses with +$100,000 betting action per race. Yes they are doing much better than they deserve.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by jeebus1083

Hi Tim,

Playing MVR is like playing low-stakes no-limit Texas Hold’em: the potential for some hokey results that defy both logic and commonsense. In other words, if someone raises preflop, calling said raise with 8-7 offsuit is a negative -EV move, especially when the preflop raiser has been a rock for a solid 2 hours in the session.

Of course, the donkey calls, flops 8-10-Q, calls my continuation bet, then turns the case 8 to make a set. River dry, and my KK gets cracked by a set of 8s that had no business playing the hand in the first place. “But it’s my lucky hand!” He said... a sure sign that either 1) this was not an ideal table for me to play at or 2) playing $1/$2 blind structure is simply a -EV venture in itself due to the fact that it’s “cheap action” (many players limp in for the minimum, then call a raise or 3bet (re-raise) anyway to see the flop: more players in a hand = danger!) and it attracts a variety of skill levels.

As it relates to racing, the stock quality of the runners is so inconsistent at some tracks - be it due to the track surface, medications, or horse soundness - that you’re destined to lose money betting on it. Not to mention that the pool sizes are anemic and that a single wager can throw the tote askew.

Well, first of all, that's trips, not a set, and second, the implied odds and stack sizes matter here. If he gets away cheaply when your kings hold up and gets your stack when they don't, it might not be such a bad play....

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

the united states population has gone from 130 million people in 1960 to around 340 million people today.

in 1960 there were over 25,000 people at Belmont race track in 1960 on a friday afternoon, today there isn't 250 people there.

maybe more than 250 for opening day.

This is basically why, no matter what NYRA says about handle, I think they did a horrible job for decades and should have been replaced as the manager of the tracks. It should be possible in New York City to find several thousand people who would like to attend the races. NYRA consistently can't despite having excellent facilities.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

This is basically why, no matter what NYRA says about handle, I think they did a horrible job for decades and should have been replaced as the manager of the tracks. It should be possible in New York City to find several thousand people who would like to attend the races. NYRA consistently can't despite having excellent facilities.

Racing is in secular decline. Do you know Ron Geary? He's a great handicapper and presumably loves racing. He's a CPA by training, and he was the CEO of ResCare (built into a large company, at least for that industry; ultimately sold). With all his business successes, he couldn't really turn the business around at Ellis Park. Why is that? Now you may say, "that's an irrelevant point, as Ellis isn't located next to a population base of 10 mm or so people." True, but why couldn't he meaningfully turn the business? He tried a number of different things, including lowering takeout, but nothing was a magic bullet.

Here's my point: you and others like to imply that "if only you were running XYZ track, racing would prosper." I don't buy it. The secular forces are too much to overcome. Are there areas for improvement at most tracks, including NYRA? Absolutely.

But please list everything you'd change at NYRA. Don't go back in time. I want to know what you'd do differently now. Again, there are areas for improvement at any track, or business for that matter, but there's no magic elixir.