Tax Reform

[Tom]

S

ince Social Security and Medicare are the two largest items in our federal budget....The inevitable will happen. So yes, lets party like its not 2049 !

BS. SS was paid for by working people all their lives.
We need SS more than we need almost any other expenditures.
SS needs to be untouchable.
The money we get from SS is OUR money, albeit stupidly invested.
OUR money. End of story.

God knows the useless government wastes FAR more money.

[davew]

Originally Posted by Tom

S

BS. SS was paid for by working people all their lives.
We need SS more than we need almost any other expenditures.
SS needs to be untouchable.
The money we get from SS is OUR money, albeit stupidly invested.
OUR money. End of story.

God knows the useless government wastes FAR more money.

We all have been involved with a state sponsored ponzi scheme - our money has already been paid out to previous investors.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

Can't just leave sick people who did what they were supposed to do out to dry. It sounds good here but in reality you can't do that to good American people.

As far as this new golden age... the cards are pretty heavily stacked against that. Growth will be better sure; it's hard to imagine a more regulatory environment than the previous administration but this thought thay tax cuts to middle class Americans boost growth has been proven to be patently false. Americans are very bad at investing in the future. Hell look at our government and you can see that.

Cutting corporate taxes boost investments, innovation, and r&d. Cutting the average Joe's gets a TV off the shelf.

I'm all for lower taxes but only if spending is cut. Change entitlement eligibility ages. Revamp the safety net. Start exchanging short term for long term debt. And don't make a bad insurance program even more financially unstable without having some clue as to how to address the problem.

People weren't drying in droves before Obamination Care -- and they wouldn't die in droves after it.

And IF Americans are very bad " at investing in the future" (or did you mean to say in their own personal future), then what is that to you? Since you're obviously so much smarter than your fellow Americans and realize all this, just take care of your own future and let the rest of us take care of ours.

And yes, cutting the "average Joe's" (did you say that looking down the long slope of your condescending snout!?) taxes will take TVs and other things off the shelf -- and this is bad? Go back and look at my formula that I gave to Nooo Joisey. For your info, spending money in the private sector is precisely what drives, stimulates and revitalizes the economy since there inevitably results a positive chain reaction to this spending, such as creating new jobs? New jobs bad too?

By the way...have you ever owned and operated a business in your life?

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by boxcar

People weren't drying in droves before Obamination Care -- and they wouldn't die in droves after it.

And IF Americans are very bad " at investing in the future" (or did you mean to say in their own personal future), then what is that to you? Since you're obviously so much smarter than your fellow Americans and realize all this, just take care of your own future and let the rest of us take care of ours.

And yes, cutting the "average Joe's" (did you say that looking down the long slope of your condescending snout!?) taxes will take TVs and other things off the shelf -- and this is bad? Go back and look at my formula that I gave to Nooo Joisey. For your info, spending money in the private sector is precisely what drives, stimulates and revitalizes the economy since there inevitably results a positive chain reaction to this spending, such as creating new jobs? New jobs bad too?

By the way...have you ever owned and operated a business in your life?

I never said anything about dying in droves. I'm talking about people who happen to be sick and went out and got insurance. They go back to filing medical bankruptcy now? The insurance companies are going to require more bailouts. It's just that simple.

Secondly the grow our way out of it model hasn't worked yet. For 2017 we would have to overcome a revenue shortfall of about half a trillion dollars or about 15%. So for every dollar Uncle Sam spent last year $0.15 of it was borrowed. This is all before hurricanes, wildfires, wars, etc.

And now we're cutting taxes. I'm not saying what you propose is impossible but that's a shit load of growth... being skeptical of your statement seems a far more realistic outlook.

[forced89]

Originally Posted by Tom

The money we get from SS is OUR money, albeit stupidly invested.
OUR money. End of story.

If one lives long enough, it all adds up. In my 17 years of collecting SS my monthly payments have totaled over $350,000. I have never added up how much I paid in during my working years but at least the gap is narrowing.

[elysiantraveller]

As far as owning and operating a business yes I currently do. I run a mortgage brokerage outfit that does significant volume for the midwest. My immediate family also operates a staffing company that does around $90 million a year in billables.

So yes... to answer your point I do understand Keynesian economics, government stimulus (because that's what this truly is), and deficit spending. My answer is still no I don't think economic growth will increase government revenue by 20% anytime in the near future. History doesn't support that. The workforce demographics don't support that either. Neither do the spending hikes in the pipeline.

[Tom]

Originally Posted by forced89

If one lives long enough, it all adds up. In my 17 years of collecting SS my monthly payments have totaled over $350,000. I have never added up how much I paid in during my working years but at least the gap is narrowing.

And others get a fraction back for their families by dying too early.
The whole scheme is a disgusting example of government screwing up everything it touches. The only fair way is for everyone who paid in to get it all back + interest. The way it is set up now that can't happen, so we all accepted blatant stealing by the useless government.

[FantasticDan]

Originally Posted by Tom

Not one dems in the senate voted for this.
My litmus test for a GOOD bill.

ps, Dan, mosite, feel free to pay MORE than you are required too, if you are so worried about your grandchildren.

Wow, what a change in tune for Tommy! Cuz in years past, all he did was wail about the deficit and the poor grandchildren..

Here's what he said when the Obama admin requested $100M on medical research to map the human brain:

Odummy wants 100 million to pay for a project to map the human brain.
The jerk just doesn't get it. We are broke. There is no money.
Instead of trying to solve the fiscal disaster, this idiot is still digging us deeper. This is a direct assault on our grandchildren.

Let's see.. $100M to map the human brain: BAD.

Billions in permanent tax cuts for the wealthy: GOOD.

Here's what Tom said when the repubs voted to increase the debt celing:

They rolled over. Sniveling dogs, all of them. No difference between a republican moderate and a commie democrat. Our grandchildren were raped yesterday.

Oh dear, such harsh language! But Tommy stood against those "sniveling dog" republicans. What's changed now?

Oh yeah.. Tommy's doing his own sniveling.. at the feet of Trump

Here's a snippet from a govt shutdown debate:

No, this is a case of the repubs doing the responsible thing and freeing up money to keep the government running. The irresponsible ones are the party of NO, the dems, who insist on running up the debt for our grandchildren to carry.

Aww. Who's running up our debt now? What happened to the Tea Party that Tom loved so much?

Why, they floated away in Boston Harbor.. along with some other spineless jellyfish..

[JustRalph]

I used to be a deficit hawk too......but after listening to this shit since the Reagan days.........it starts to become white noise.

If after what Obama did, more debt than all the Presidents before him combined, the debt didn’t kill the economy......I guess it’s a non factor in many people’s minds.

I don’t like it, but I don’t worry about it anymore in the slightest.

I figure I got ten years left if I’m lucky......it won’t ever be paid off in my lifetime

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by elysiantraveller

As far as owning and operating a business yes I currently do. I run a mortgage brokerage outfit that does significant volume for the midwest. My immediate family also operates a staffing company that does around $90 million a year in billables.

So yes... to answer your point I do understand Keynesian economics, government stimulus (because that's what this truly is), and deficit spending. My answer is still no I don't think economic growth will increase government revenue by 20% anytime in the near future. History doesn't support that. The workforce demographics don't support that either. Neither do the spending hikes in the pipeline.

Then I'm at a loss to understand the rationale behind your "business sense" when you were so dismissive of Joe Average (or what that average Joe) buying TVs.

The key to paying off the debt is growing the economy AND no spending hikes in the pipeline.

Why is it an automatic, automatic automatic (forgive the redundancy) that government MUST spend more money year after year after year? No wonder government believes it has the green to do this since the electorate is filled with wild, crazy spendthrifts like yourself.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Then I'm at a loss to understand the rationale behind your "business sense" when you were so dismissive of Joe Average (or what that average Joe) buying TVs.

The key to paying off the debt is growing the economy AND no spending hikes in the pipeline.

Why is it an automatic, automatic automatic (forgive the redundancy) that government MUST spend more money year after year after year? No wonder government believes it has the green to do this since the electorate is filled with wild, crazy spendthrifts like yourself.

Because its been tried over and over again and hasn't really netted the results intended. Does it help? Sure. Does it correct a 20% budget shortfall? Nope.

Again... This would be a non-issue if we had already negotiated spending cuts but we haven't. Next on the agenda with this administration are issues that will increase spending.

Common business sense is you don't decide to pocket less money with the intention of spending more of it.

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

I used to be a deficit hawk too......but after listening to this shit since the Reagan days.........it starts to become white noise.

If after what Obama did, more debt than all the Presidents before him combined, the debt didn’t kill the economy......I guess it’s a non factor in many people’s minds.

I don’t like it, but I don’t worry about it anymore in the slightest.

I figure I got ten years left if I’m lucky......it won’t ever be paid off in my lifetime

Reagan was 30 years ago... Obama was 1.

The tune has changed and its because the guy racking up the credit card now has an R next to his name.

Think about it... for EVERY dollar spent about 1/8 of it was borrowed this year and that's not even counting the hurricanes.

I'm all good with lowering the corporate tax rate. I'm great with reducing regulations which save the economy and government money. However, we haven't even touched the spending portion of the agenda and we've crippled a large health care bill that will cost us in the future.

Guy ran as the King of Debt remember?

[JustRalph]

Read my post again....... I don’t care about it anymore. It’s white noise to me. I’m sure it’s that way for many.

Btw, in 2018 Ryan and Trump both say they are going after entitlements. That should fit with your theory or plan . Reduce spending 👍

[elysiantraveller]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Read my post again....... I don’t care about it anymore. It’s white noise to me. I’m sure it’s that way for many.

Btw, in 2018 Ryan and Trump both say they are going after entitlements. That should fit with your theory or plan . Reduce spending ��

My point is it wasn't just a year ago... maybe you weren't one of them then. Everyone complained about how horrible Obama was with the debt but now its just white noise to them?!?

They are targeting welfare reform not entitlements.

[FantasticDan]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

Read my post again....... I don’t care about it anymore. It’s white noise to me. I’m sure it’s that way for many.

Didn't you also say you didn't care about ANYTHING anymore other than destroying your liberal enemy by any means necessary?