Betting Options

[Track Phantom]

Can someone explain to me why tracks have so many similar betting options in every race? I believe I saw a pick 3, pick 4, pick 5 and Daily Double offered on the same race last week. The phrase "less is more" might be applicable here.

If I were in charge, I'd give the betting menu a complete overhaul. For example, I'd eliminate redundant bets like quinellas. I'd limit multi-race options down to 1 per race. For example, I'd have a daily double in the first and last races only. No other multi-race wagers would be available. In a race where a pick 5 starts, no other multi-race wagers would exist, and so on. I would even consider not allowing superfecta and trifecta bets to be available together.

[MJC922]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

Can someone explain to me why tracks have so many similar betting options in every race? I believe I saw a pick 3, pick 4, pick 5 and Daily Double offered on the same race last week. The phrase "less is more" might be applicable here.

If I were in charge, I'd give the betting menu a complete overhaul. For example, I'd eliminate redundant bets like quinellas. I'd limit multi-race options down to 1 per race. For example, I'd have a daily double in the first and last races only. No other multi-race wagers would be available. In a race where a pick 5 starts, no other multi-race wagers would exist, and so on. I would even consider not allowing superfecta and trifecta bets to be available together.

With all due respect rolling doubles are the only thing keeping a lot of the other bets viable at this point, otherwise final prices are a wild guess. Taking those away would be a grave mistake IMO and frankly tracks they don't offer them are pretty much giving their customers the big middle finger. They don't care obviously so when they eventually go under I won't be caring much either.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

Can someone explain to me why tracks have so many similar betting options in every race? I believe I saw a pick 3, pick 4, pick 5 and Daily Double offered on the same race last week. The phrase "less is more" might be applicable here.

If I were in charge, I'd give the betting menu a complete overhaul. For example, I'd eliminate redundant bets like quinellas. I'd limit multi-race options down to 1 per race. For example, I'd have a daily double in the first and last races only. No other multi-race wagers would be available. In a race where a pick 5 starts, no other multi-race wagers would exist, and so on. I would even consider not allowing superfecta and trifecta bets to be available together.

How is a quinella a redundant bet?


So if I spend hours handicapping a P-6 for races 4 through 9 I wouldn't be able to play a DD or P-3 starting in race 4? No thanks.

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by AndyC

How is a quinella a redundant bet?


So if I spend hours handicapping a P-6 for races 4 through 9 I wouldn't be able to play a DD or P-3 starting in race 4? No thanks.

Quinella is another way of playing an exacta box.

Not sure what the right balance is but the objective would be to increase pools as opposed to cannibalizing pools. You would adapt.

[thaskalos]

The rolling daily doubles happen to be my favorite wagering option.

[TrifectaBox]

The Q is not a straight exacta box.



Its a combination of both exacta's. So no matter if the longer price wins or runs second, you get the same payoff.



You Q a 10-1 and a 6/5, your payoff is going to be very small relative to the exacta , if the 10-1 wins





Not sure why this bet is so popular in Hong Kong.



They really should get rid of it in the states. The pools are very small.

[racenomics]

I am curious what tracks still offer quinella? Prarie Meadows does and most fair tracks, but I wonder who else?

[wisconsin]

Originally Posted by racenomics

I am curious what tracks still offer quinella? Prarie Meadows does and most fair tracks, but I wonder who else?

NYRA has a few each card. Del Mar every race.

[Poindexter]

I have never cared for the quinella.i think Del Mar is the only track that I ever played that offered it. But if the market wanted it, then I would have no problem with its existence.As mjc stated, rolling doubles are really beneficial to the player. I played Gulfstream one day recently and I just used my spreadsheet and daily double will pays into each race to predict final odds. I was able to start formulating my plays at very early in the betting cycle, found the projected odds to be quite predictive and didn’t have to alter my play once entire day. Also there are times that you can get some really sweet double prices. I would not say frequently, but it happens.

Personally, I like having all the options. Sometimes a race screams exacta to me, other times it screams tri and sometimes I prefer the super. I am also not adverse to playing the super high 5 in a carryover situation in the right situations. Also just because I may prefer the superfecta in some situations doesn’t mean I don’t want the option to play the tri.

Thus from my perspective the more options available the better. I do get your frustration about smaller pools because they offer a trifecta and superfecta for example.

My biggest frustration is the ridiculous takeout in many of these pools. I know if I am playing a 23 percent takeout pick 3 pool or superfecta pool my competition the caw is getting at least 15 percent rebates and I get virtually nothing. I would have no problem taking them on if takeout was 10 percent and they were getting rebated 5 percent. But I know I have to be very selective when the takeout is 24 percent and some caw may be getting rebates as high as 18 percent. But to be honest forcing a play in 15 percent pick 5 pool, when I have much better pick 4 play in a much higher takeout pool next race is not wise either.

By the way just an example of where I have one option less than I need is when I play woodbine Mohawk harness. Because they guarantee a 100 k pool in the early pick 5 that starts race 1, they do not offer a pick 4 until race 4. I often find myself frustrated that there is no pick 4 pool until race 4.

[denniswilliams]

Originally Posted by TrifectaBox

The Q is not a straight exacta box.



Its a combination of both exacta's. So no matter if the longer price wins or runs second, you get the same payoff.



You Q a 10-1 and a 6/5, your payoff is going to be very small relative to the exacta , if the 10-1 wins





Not sure why this bet is so popular in Hong Kong.



They really should get rid of it in the states. The pools are very small.

No stats, just observations.


The Q usually pays around half the Ex. The exception being when a prohibitive favorite runs second. Hard to have a strong opinion when so many races are determined by photos (and, obviously, trips). In some cases, the Q-places makes sense, as well.

[AndyC]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

Quinella is another way of playing an exacta box.

Not sure what the right balance is but the objective would be to increase pools as opposed to cannibalizing pools. You would adapt.

A quinella is certainly not another way of playing an exacta box.



I would not argue with eliminating the quinella from a track's betting menu if the handle for the bet was minuscule. Let the market decide.


If overall handle increases with a full menu of bets does it really matter that some betting pools are cannibalized?

[Nitro]

Originally Posted by TrifectaBox

Not sure why this bet is so popular in Hong Kong.

They really should get rid of it in the states. The pools are very small.

The Quinella betting in Hong Kong is one of my favorite bets. That's primarily because the fields are generally very large (12 to 14 entries), the Quinella betting pool is huge (by comparison to the Stateside version) and because the local ADW betting is co-mingled with the HK pools. As an objective indicator the Quinella pool in each race when properly analyzed can invariably offer visibly biased betting patterns beyond the scope of the Win/Place pools. This factor alone can then provide an additional edge when considering the live entries.
Having experienced the game in HK for many years, I believe that the ROI on this type of betting there can consistently be very rewarding when the selections used offer decent value!
.
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[racenomics]

Originally Posted by wisconsin

NYRA has a few each card. Del Mar every race.

Yes, you are right. For race 4 at AQU there was 4800 in the quinella pool

[horses4courses]

Originally Posted by thaskalos

The rolling daily doubles happen to be my favorite wagering option.

The DD "will pays" are an invaluable tool.

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by horses4courses

The DD "will pays" are an invaluable tool.

Not only that...the wager is a great betting option in itself. It's hard to find 3, 4 or 5 consecutive playable races. But the rolling daily double allows you to place a decent wager at reasonable risk.