Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board

Go Back   Horse Racing Forum - PaceAdvantage.Com - Horse Racing Message Board > Thoroughbred Horse Racing Discussion > General Racing Discussion


Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old 04-14-2018, 09:59 AM   #16
exactatom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 172
Her effort yesterday is indicative of a trend I am seeing more and more: horses in stakes races not acting well in the gate. Last Saturday at Keeneland it took over 6 minutes to load a field because 2 on the outside did not want to load.

DRF TV showed vide of Unique Bella being schooled at the gate Thursday and not wanting to load, breaking through the gate and then hesitating to load again. The XBTV people, notably Zoe Cadman and the Mig acted like it was no big deal and Zoe rambled on about how great she was. The DRF TV analyst correctly stated this looked like a problem.

Fast forward a day and she stands in the gate. You can't blame the jockey for this. He did a great job getting her relaxed and caught up to the group. Nobody complained when he did the same with Arrogate at the 2017 Dubai World Cup.

You have to blame the trainer. He knows she has a history of gate issues and how many gate works do you see in her pp's?

Why?

Is it because trainers want to work horses in the dark early before the gate schooling sessions start?

Why ship a horse half way across the country and not have her primed to leave the gate?

This is on the trainer and not the jockey.
exactatom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-14-2018, 10:26 AM   #17
Ruffian1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by exactatom View Post
Her effort yesterday is indicative of a trend I am seeing more and more: horses in stakes races not acting well in the gate. Last Saturday at Keeneland it took over 6 minutes to load a field because 2 on the outside did not want to load.

DRF TV showed vide of Unique Bella being schooled at the gate Thursday and not wanting to load, breaking through the gate and then hesitating to load again. The XBTV people, notably Zoe Cadman and the Mig acted like it was no big deal and Zoe rambled on about how great she was. The DRF TV analyst correctly stated this looked like a problem.

Fast forward a day and she stands in the gate. You can't blame the jockey for this. He did a great job getting her relaxed and caught up to the group. Nobody complained when he did the same with Arrogate at the 2017 Dubai World Cup.

You have to blame the trainer. He knows she has a history of gate issues and how many gate works do you see in her pp's?

Why?

Is it because trainers want to work horses in the dark early before the gate schooling sessions start?

Why ship a horse half way across the country and not have her primed to leave the gate?

This is on the trainer and not the jockey.
Can I ask... in the video did she actually break from the gate or was she walking through it with the doors either open or being opened by hand with no bell?
I can help explain the gate work question but that info would be a great start.
Ruffian1 is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-14-2018, 10:48 AM   #18
exactatom
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 172
When they got her in the gate, she broke through a la Barbaro.

When they were trying to load her in the gate, the gate stalls were closed.
exactatom is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-14-2018, 10:50 AM   #19
GMB@BP
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
Quote:
Originally Posted by owlshead View Post
no expert, but she just appears to be a Cali girl?
well, the brains dont always match up to the talent of the horse.
GMB@BP is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-14-2018, 11:13 AM   #20
Jeff P
Registered User
 
Jeff P's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: JCapper Platinum: Kind of like Deep Blue... but for horses.
Posts: 5,290
During pre race warmups - at several points I saw her holding her head at a subtle angle followed by tossing her head (small quick upward movements) that suggested (at least to me) she was anxious about her surroundings.

Didn't know about the gate incident the day before. So I had no idea what she was ticked about. Only that she was ticked about something.




-jp

.
__________________
Team JCapper: 2011 PAIHL Regular Season ROI Leader after 15 weeks
www.JCapper.com

Last edited by Jeff P; 04-14-2018 at 11:16 AM.
Jeff P is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-14-2018, 11:17 AM   #21
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff P View Post
During pre race warmups - at several points I saw her holding her head at a subtle angle followed by tossing her head (small quick upward movements) that suggested (at least to me) she was anxious about her surroundings.


-jp

.
She was agitated in the paddock as well. Unfortunately with the bad weather, they had to saddle them inside. It isn't a very nice paddock. Usually for the big races they do it outside. I would guess it all started there.
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-14-2018, 11:18 AM   #22
cj
@TimeformUSfigs
 
cj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Moore, OK
Posts: 46,828
Here is the TimeformUS chart of the race. I found the pace figures interesting, particularly the change from the 1/4 to the 1/2.

Attached Images
File Type: png AppleBlossom.png (27.5 KB, 19 views)
cj is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-14-2018, 11:50 AM   #23
Pensacola Pete
Veteran
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 729
She arrived Wednesday for her first race outside of familiar confines of Santa Anita and Del Mar. It was probably her first long-distance trip, colder weather, an off track, unfamiliar surroundings, and a race starting in front of a vocal crowd. She didn't want any part of it. If Hollendorfer takes the clue, he'll either keep her in SoCal for the rest of her career or ship her to a race out of state a lot earlier than two days before that race, so that she can get acclimated to her surroundings.}

Here is an article, foreboding what happened:

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...-apple-blossom

Last edited by Pensacola Pete; 04-14-2018 at 11:51 AM. Reason: added URL
Pensacola Pete is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-14-2018, 12:00 PM   #24
Ruffian1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Posts: 854
Quote:
Originally Posted by exactatom View Post
When they got her in the gate, she broke through a la Barbaro.

When they were trying to load her in the gate, the gate stalls were closed.
Wow. That is not good at all. As a matter of fact, that is borderline terrible. And probably a problem that if it has gone on with her for a while or is becoming a problem all of the sudden, it is liable to stay a problem, which is obviously not good at all.

OK, let me explain .

There are horses that break bad because they hate the gate. As you try and stand them in the morning, in many cases they only get worse. So the starter will work with the trainer to come up with a plan that seems to be the best of a bad situation. Like a blindfold, of padding on her hips, or whatever. From that point forward everyone tries to do the same thing. So with a horse with this type of importance, no doubt a phone call was made, prompted by the trainer so the starter where the horse calls home base, can relay any info to the starter at another track. This sounds like a work in progress that is going from bad to worse. What will prevent this from happening next time is for a guy on the gate crew to " tail"her. That is, once she is in the gate, you hold her tail up so she cannot bring her weight back. Hopefully that has not failed yet. I just don't know.

If they load just OK but truly hate the gate, standing in the morning which is what you saw, is supposed to be something like walk in, stand, back out, and repeat several times, and then after the last back out, be led around the gate and she gallops off or hand open the gate and let them walk out the front. No breaking at all. Breaking with the doors closed and the bell ringing usually makes things much worse.
That might be why you are not seeing gate workouts in the morning. Those will make an upset horse that needs to calm down turn into a lunatic. Mainly because it is not physical , it is all mental and the horse can't think straight if they get flustered.




There are others that break bad because they are conically muscle sore behind. They actually do not mind the gate, it just seems like it because they always break tardy. But it is the tightness of the butt muscles or back leg muscles or lack of muscle from the horse getting off that area by throwing their weight forward while exercising over a period of time. Often you will see these horses coming over in a blanket on its butt area even if it is not cold out. Not summer though. They will typically have a liniment on them as well. It might look like their rear end up high is wet.
A ton of jogging, not galloping as a warm up all the way until post time if necessary will be about the best you can do with a muscle sore type. You usually see these horses running for claiming prices and have a history of coming from pretty far back.




Lastly, there are indeed those that just break poorly for seemingly no reason at all. Those types DO need to practice breaking and that usually helps quite a bit. But unfortunately, it almost always seems to be the first reason I mentioned. And those cases can really be tough to crack.


Hope this info somehow helps down the road and clears up why you don't see horses like her working from the gate more often.



Quick story if you care. I had a horse I ran at the Meadowlands or Belmont, can't remember and he was claimed by Johnny Campo from me for about 25k. At the time, Campo was BMOC and had Pleasant Colony training up to the Gold Cup in NY. The horse he claimed from me was a real knucklehead at the gate. Typically, if a horse is claimed the barn that is turning over the horse to the new trainer will alert them of a problem that could seriously hurt the horse or a rider as a courtesy. My groom tried to tell the people taking the horse but they blew them off and were saying go back to Md. and stuff like that. So they wouldn't hear of anything we tried to tell them. A couple of months later I read that my old horse stepped all over Pleasant Colony leaving the gate as a rabbit for a workout and ended his career. Damn shame nobody would listen.

Last edited by Ruffian1; 04-14-2018 at 12:02 PM.
Ruffian1 is online now   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-14-2018, 02:51 PM   #25
JohnGalt1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,230
I thought Unique Bella was the second best horse in that race.

I bet Farrell to win.

I was so right, then so wrong.
JohnGalt1 is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-15-2018, 01:44 PM   #26
mfactor
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by RunForTheRoses View Post
I didn't play at all today, so, was the rail really bad? Very wide trip on UB not that the 2 was not really rolling at the end.
Thought the rail was good but I was all over Telekinesis and that Jack horse closed and stuck it up my ass.......ruined a 48 dollar double multiple times
mfactor is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-15-2018, 02:54 PM   #27
davew
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 22,650
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan View Post
Bingo. Something's up with her.

And to the person who noted her size, it was really noticeable today, not just that she's bigger, but that she almost looks like a draft breed instead of a Thoroughbred. Not very attractive.
Do they still allow anabolic steroids in racehorses?
davew is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Old 04-15-2018, 05:20 PM   #28
Fager Fan
Veteran
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
Quote:
Originally Posted by davew View Post
Do they still allow anabolic steroids in racehorses?
Apparently at least in CA to train on, as we learned about Ron Ellis.
Fager Fan is offline   Reply With Quote Reply
Reply





Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

» Advertisement
» Current Polls
Wh deserves to be the favorite? (last 4 figures)
Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:00 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Copyright 1999 - 2023 -- PaceAdvantage.Com -- All Rights Reserved
We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program
designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.