No real PROOF of PAST POSTING!

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by green80

You hit the nail on the head. Stopping betting at 1 min to post would show the security issue. If everything was straight, stopping the betting at 1 min to post still would not help the better as he watches the odds change and can do nothing about his bet. That is why nowdays I just play the small tracks where the pools are too little to interest these guys, they just can't bet enough without betting against themselves. Also seems like the pickins a little easier there.

As far as the whales and syndicates betting late, they are right just a little too often for me.

I take it you don't play Sunland very much then...a bunch of small tracks get pounded by the teams...why wouldn't they? They just bet less, but still has the same percentage impact as the larger pools.

[Saratoga_Mike]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I take it you don't play Sunland very much then...a bunch of small tracks get pounded by the teams...why wouldn't they? They just bet less, but still has the same percentage impact as the larger pools.

I understand your point about small tracks, but why do you indicate the late play is "teams?" I have no idea who it is, just curious if you could elaborate on that?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Saratoga_Mike

I understand your point about small tracks, but why do you indicate the late play is "teams?" I have no idea who it is, just curious if you could elaborate on that?

Because the ones betting the most money, from all accounts, are composed of a group of people...the brains and the money and the gophers...each comprising what some call a team.

But in reality, what they are, are businesses...

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Because the ones betting the most money, from all accounts, are composed of a group of people...the brains and the money and the gophers...each comprising what some call a team.

But in reality, what they are, are businesses...

How does one prove these bets are by "teams"? Wagering printouts? Just wondering if anyone really knows "who" these people are.

[green80]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I take it you don't play Sunland very much then...a bunch of small tracks get pounded by the teams...why wouldn't they? They just bet less, but still has the same percentage impact as the larger pools.

I do play Sunland, and for some reason still show a profit there.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by green80

I do play Sunland, and for some reason still show a profit there.

Who says you can't show a profit anywhere? I never claimed the massive amount of late money makes winning impossible.

It's just frustrating as hell sometimes.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Track Phantom

How does one prove these bets are by "teams"? Wagering printouts? Just wondering if anyone really knows "who" these people are.

Because that's the general consensus. I have to trust people like Dave Schwartz and Ian Myers and other people who might know better than I do what is happening.

And if you read up on the Hong Kong teams, which predate what is going on in the US currently by a decade or two, it all makes sense. Like I said, read up on Bill Benter if you haven't already...

[lamboguy]

all you have to do is check out the 10th race at Oaklawn today to assure you that there is at least a cancel button after the race starts. and that place is supposed to be secure as hell.

i wonder if the owner there has the balls to open up his mouth and put an end to past posting at his track. he went to the Arkansas state house for 20 years to get the minimum payoff dropped down from 2.20 to 2.10 in the name of that being good for the horseplayer.

[Denny]

Cella died, lamboguy.

[steveb]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Because the ones betting the most money, from all accounts, are composed of a group of people...the brains and the money and the gophers...each comprising what some call a team.

But in reality, what they are, are businesses...

i bet they bet early too, not just late.
favours them in two ways.
makes the price of the favoured ones better, so they can then back it down late, which in turn will make the odds of those bet early more favourable too.

i suspect, without actually knowing, that most of the teams are collaborating these days, or else they would simply cannibalise each other.

[AlsoEligible]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

all you have to do is check out the 10th race at Oaklawn today to assure you that there is at least a cancel button after the race starts. and that place is supposed to be secure as hell.

i wonder if the owner there has the balls to open up his mouth and put an end to past posting at his track. he went to the Arkansas state house for 20 years to get the minimum payoff dropped down from 2.20 to 2.10 in the name of that being good for the horseplayer.

Oaklawn does allow customers (at least on-track) to cancel wagers a few seconds after the race starts. As far as I know, they’re the only US track that still allows this. Not sure if there’s any limit on how much can be cancelled in those few seconds.

[Seabiscuit@AR]

A woman working for the one of the totes in Australia got away with past posting for years. Her last bets appear to have been about 2010 which is recent enough. She was putting on trifecta bets after the races had been run

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-...08-139f72.html

[Seabiscuit@AR]

If that woman working for the tote in Australia had been stealing money from the till or the safe she would have detected much faster than she was. Instead she was able to past post for about 10 years and take out over a million dollars. The reason for this is that past posting costs the tote nothing in direct costs so they don't have a great incentive to design systems to detect it

The costs of past posting were paid by the other players who bet the winning trifecta combination that this woman hammered down after the race. The tote would have in fact gained from her past posting as she would have paid takeout on her "bets"

[Track Phantom]

Originally Posted by Seabiscuit@AR

If that woman working for the tote in Australia had been stealing money from the till or the safe she would have detected much faster than she was. Instead she was able to past post for about 10 years and take out over a million dollars. The reason for this is that past posting costs the tote nothing in direct costs so they don't have a great incentive to design systems to detect it

The costs of past posting were paid by the other players who bet the winning trifecta combination that this woman hammered down after the race. The tote would have in fact gained from her past posting as she would have paid takeout on her "bets"

This has been my issue all along. My thinking is if the betting was fixed odds covered by the track, there would be numerous safeguards in place to detect anything nefarious. Parimutuel betting not only lowers the interest they have in catching bad behavior, like mentioned above, it actually has a built in incentive (takeout = money in their pockets).

Now, I'm not saying that tracks would rather have the takeout and a corrupt system. They wouldn't. They'd rather have it be totally honest and fair. The problem is unless proven without a doubt, they will not investigate anything as it does nothing but shine a negative light on the product.

[jay68802]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Who says you can't show a profit anywhere? I never claimed the massive amount of late money makes winning impossible.

It's just frustrating as hell sometimes.

Have to agree and believe that those teams cost you around 1 to 3% in your ROI.