Is fixed odds betting better than parimutuel?

[whisperlunch]

Why is NJ the only state to do this ? Why do horseman / or tracks not want this type of wagering?

[Rutgers]

For most players, paramutuel is better. For long-term winning players, fixed-odds wagering may offer some advantages. Some horsemen/tracks are opposed because they get a larger percentage of the handle with paramutuel wagering.

NJ has it because Betfair (thru TVG) is the exclusive mandated ADW in NJ, and lobbied for it.

[Dave Schwartz]

Originally Posted by whisperlunch

Why is NJ the only state to do this ? Why do horseman / or tracks not want this type of wagering?

Because exotics are difficult beyond a couple of combinations in an exchange and tracks would suddenly find that there would be no trifecta, supers, picks, pick4s, pick6s etc.

[thaskalos]

For anyone with a solid opinion on a race, fixed odds has to be a better option than the paramutuel version of betting that we are currently stuck with. Watching our horse tumble in price during the running of the race as we helplessly look on in disbelief is something that I doubt any knowledgeable horseplayer would ever miss if fixed-odds wagering were somehow implemented as the mainstay in the game.

Can you imagine the public outcry if paramutuel wagering was the operational betting system in sports betting? You bet the Patriots at -7...and an avalanche of late money just before the start of the game changes your bet to a -10 proposition? There would be blood in the streets.

[lamboguy]

legal sports betting will lead to fixed odds wagering. you can offer fixed odds for straight wagers and parimutuel for the combination wagering. a venue could either book the action themselves or sell the right to book the action.

[JerryBoyle]

Originally Posted by Rutgers

For most players, paramutuel is better. For long-term winning players, fixed-odds wagering may offer some advantages. Some horsemen/tracks are opposed because they get a larger percentage of the handle with paramutuel wagering.

NJ has it because Betfair (thru TVG) is the exclusive mandated ADW in NJ, and lobbied for it.

I kinda feel as if it's the opposite. First, it's importnat to distinguish between a sports book offering fixed odds and exchange wagering allowing fixed odds. For the casual fan, fixed odds through either seems better as you know immediately what price you're getting. It's easier to understand than trying to describe how PM pools work, though explaining how to bet on an exchange might be tricky.

For large bettors with an informed opinion who are good at modeling, PM pools seem better to me as compared to a sports book. Once a sports books knows they're a sharp, their wagers will be severely limited. I'd be interesting to hear the thoughts on this by some of the large teams, but my suspicion is that if I were running a team, I'd prefer PM pools. Also, as Dave has said, I can't see how one can offer fixed odds for exotics through either a sports book or exchange

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Only thing I know is that I'm grossly tired of TVG 'explaining' this incredibly easy to understand wagering opportunity that is available to just New Jersey bettors.

[cutchemist42]

I think once sports betting becomes legal, horse racing will have to adopt it or be in a bad spot.

Related article at Bloodhorse that came out.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...ing-innovation

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by cutchemist42

I think once sports betting becomes legal, horse racing will have to adopt it or be in a bad spot.

Related article at Bloodhorse that came out.

https://www.bloodhorse.com/horse-rac...ing-innovation

Disagree.

Horse bettors are in the game for the action, the highs, and the intellectual side of finding winners.

I can be wrong on 12 of 13 races at Gulfstream, but be right on 1 race and make a profit. If I'm wrong on 12 of 13 NFL games I lose my ass.

[Poindexter]

Originally Posted by JerryBoyle

I kinda feel as if it's the opposite. First, it's importnat to distinguish between a sports book offering fixed odds and exchange wagering allowing fixed odds. For the casual fan, fixed odds through either seems better as you know immediately what price you're getting. It's easier to understand than trying to describe how PM pools work, though explaining how to bet on an exchange might be tricky.

For large bettors with an informed opinion who are good at modeling, PM pools seem better to me as compared to a sports book. Once a sports books knows they're a sharp, their wagers will be severely limited. I'd be interesting to hear the thoughts on this by some of the large teams, but my suspicion is that if I were running a team, I'd prefer PM pools. Also, as Dave has said, I can't see how one can offer fixed odds for exotics through either a sports book or exchange

Why would/should a bookmaker or even Betfair be involved. Why isn't it simply player vs player, the racetrack takes out the takeout, end of story. Why does racing love middlemen? Why should it matter which players win and which lose?

As far as innovation. Once you have the platform you can do a whole lot more than who is going to win the race. Big field like the Kentucky Derby, you can break it into 5 stables(which appear to have a fairly equal chance of winning. Give the player a chance to determine which stable the winner of the race comes out of. Offer another option(points). Give 7 points for 1st , 5 points for 2nd, 3 points for 3rd and 2 points for 4th and 1 point for 5th. Which stable will have the most points(tie goes to highest finisher).....Some races it will no big deal, others it will feel like easy money because 3 of my 4 top choices happen to randomly be in one stable. On the Breeders up you can have pick 4's, pick 5's, pick 6's with stable instead of just individual horses. I am sure there are many better ideas than these if anyone bothers to try to implement anything.

As far as exchange betting for the masses, it will be an expensive learning curve for them. There are plenty of sharp folks hanging out looking to take advantage of any weak opinion. These same guys that are knocking down
4-1 shots to 9/5 on the last tick and watching them win like 3/5 shots are going to be around these boards taking 7/2 and 3-1 and 5/2 all the way down. For the skilled player it would make the game much better, for the masses it might give them the feeling that they are the biggest sucker in the world and while I would love for exchange betting to be legal everywhere, I am not sure it would actually help the sport. I know eliminating rebates would be much more beneficial to the sport (as far as long term growth is concerned) than a betting exchange would be.

[AltonKelsey]

Originally Posted by Lemon Drop Husker

Disagree.

Horse bettors are in the game for the action, the highs, and the intellectual side of finding winners.

I can be wrong on 12 of 13 races at Gulfstream, but be right on 1 race and make a profit. If I'm wrong on 12 of 13 NFL games I lose my ass.

No comparison.

If you picked the wrong horse in 12 out of 13 match races you'd deserve to lose your ass.

[AltonKelsey]

I would love to have access to exchange wagering for the very obvious and simple reason : ease in laying odds.

You can do it now but its clumsy and prone to last minute odds changes. High takeout also limits opportunity

Betting here in the US is behind the curve.

[Lemon Drop Husker]

Originally Posted by AltonKelsey

No comparison.

If you picked the wrong horse in 12 out of 13 match races you'd deserve to lose your ass.

Therein lies the beauty of horse racing.

There are at least 6 or more running every 20 minutes as opposed to 2 supposedly even matched teams.

[whisperlunch]

I never thought of the exotic wagers issue. So in other countries you can’t bet tri’s and supers? Hmmmm ? I just feel what little I know -fixed odds seems like a better option for the players but track management & horseman must hate to give the player a better deal.

[green80]

with exchange betting you may have trouble getting someone on the other side, if you want to bet large on a long odds horse. From my experience you will have someone to match you up to a certain amount and as the odds get longer the for side.

While the exchange idea is good in theory, actually getting the money matched at better than paramutual odds is difficult at larger amount on all but the favorites