This is why we must split the country

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Of course they do. I dont feel bad about it because I assume one day we will be conquered because since the dawn of man that is how things have evolved.

The fact that people never “get” this boggles me sometimes.

The people who bitch about the white man over-running the American Indian are the worst of them.

In the court system there’s a thing called “inevitable discovery”

When the cops forget to do something and find evidence or something like that. In the 90’s the courts made exceptions for inevitable discovery. Eventually the evidence would have been found anyway due to impound rules or some clerical requirement etc. it no longer became automatic to throw out evidence that would have been found anyway.

This is also when most police departments started towing and “inventorying” every car they could. During an inventory of a towed car you would often find “tools and instrumentalities” of a crime you weren’t even aware of yet. Like guns hidden in car trunks etc.

The same broad theory applies to conquering people. If “the white man” had not taken the land from the Indians, someone would eventually. Do you think the French or the Mexicans/South Americans etc wouldn’t have done it? Just a little later.......

The noble savage was centuries behind the people of Europe and every other type of people......eventually somebody was going to conquer them. It was inevitable

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

The noble savage was centuries behind the people of Europe and every other type of people......eventually somebody was going to conquer them. It was inevitable

Theodore Roosevelt - 1886

I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indian is the dead Indian, but I believe nine out of every ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian. Take three hundred low families of New York and New Jersey, support them, for fifty years, in vicious idleness, and you will have some idea of what the Indians are. Reckless, revengeful, fiendishly cruel.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by TJDave

Theodore Roosevelt - 1886

I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indian is the dead Indian, but I believe nine out of every ten are, and I shouldn’t like to inquire too closely into the case of the tenth. The most vicious cowboy has more moral principle than the average Indian. Take three hundred low families of New York and New Jersey, support them, for fifty years, in vicious idleness, and you will have some idea of what the Indians are. Reckless, revengeful, fiendishly cruel.

I know many many american soldiers that felt the same way about the germans and especially the Japs. When you fought against a rival its pretty hard not to think to lowly of them. I know my grandfather hated the japs till his death some 60 years after the war.

[xtb]

Originally Posted by JustRalph

The noble savage was centuries behind the people of Europe and every other type of people......eventually somebody was going to conquer them. It was inevitable

It would be interesting to ask any Indians still upset about losing their land if they would have preferred that muslims had taken over North America instead of Western Europeans.

[tucker6]

Originally Posted by xtb

It would be interesting to ask any Indians still upset about losing their land if they would have preferred that muslims had taken over North America instead of Western Europeans.

As a 3/16th Indian myself, I don't believe there are many Indians alive who are truly upset about losing their land and the killing of their ancestors EXCEPT where such indignation can lead to monetary gain.

[xtb]

Originally Posted by tucker6

As a 3/16th Indian myself, I don't believe there are many Indians alive who are truly upset about losing their land and the killing of their ancestors EXCEPT where such indignation can lead to monetary gain.

I was watching some documentary years ago where a full blooded Indian was talking about the plight of Indians today. He was very passionately expressing how their problems today stem from the entitlements/subsidies/handouts Indians receive from the U.S. government and how it is not helping matters but only making things worse. Some are lining their pockets at the expense of all the rest.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by xtb

I was watching some documentary years ago where a full blooded Indian was talking about the plight of Indians today. He was very passionately expressing how their problems today stem from the entitlements/subsidies/handouts Indians receive from the U.S. government and how it is not helping matters but only making things worse. Some are lining their pockets at the expense of all the rest.

If someone has a system to take advantage of they will.

My wife literally was born in a back woods town in Kentucky. Very few of her extended family works. They just all have kids and live off the dole. Everything they due its money under the table. If there is a system to take advantage of they do it. One time I started getting mail with my brother in laws name at my address. They were trying to get Az status to get gov stuff out of this state.

When I met my wife, on the back side of a race track in Ky when I worked there, and then we left Ky and I went to Engineering school her parents wanted nothing to do with me, I was a pariah for taking her out of her birthright I suppose.

[Stevecsd2]

RE: Just Ralph: The same broad theory applies to conquering people. If “the white man” had not taken the land from the Indians, someone would eventually. Do you think the French or the Mexicans/South Americans etc wouldn’t have done it? Just a little later.......

The noble savage was centuries behind the people of Europe and every other type of people......eventually somebody was going to conquer them. It was inevitable



This was the premise of Jared Diamond's Guns Germs & Steel. If you haven't read it, it is an excellent book.

[RunForTheRoses]

Required reading:

https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/...s_and_Cultures

Sowell notes that this has always been the way for all people. The Maoris (who were supplanted by the British) supplanted the Maoriori. Native Americans (or American Indians, I just read somewhere that is the preferred term) conquered other tribes including the Solutreans who may have been a European people:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solutrean

[RunForTheRoses]

Originally Posted by tucker6

As a 3/16th Indian myself, I don't believe there are many Indians alive who are truly upset about losing their land and the killing of their ancestors EXCEPT where such indignation can lead to monetary gain.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?185807...an-perspective

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by xtb

It would be interesting to ask any Indians still upset about losing their land if they would have preferred that muslims had taken over North America instead of Western Europeans.

My gr+ Grandfather stopped them in Europe......or so I read. Cannot imagine them in North America 300 years ago.

What would our landscape look like today? The Pilgrims surely would not have survived?

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by Stevecsd2

RE: Just Ralph: The same broad theory applies to conquering people. If “the white man” had not taken the land from the Indians, someone would eventually. Do you think the French or the Mexicans/South Americans etc wouldn’t have done it? Just a little later.......

The noble savage was centuries behind the people of Europe and every other type of people......eventually somebody was going to conquer them. It was inevitable



This was the premise of Jared Diamond's Guns Germs & Steel. If you haven't read it, it is an excellent book.

Thanks! I have not. I will check it out.

Edit:

Just downloaded it to Kindle........a Pulitzer winner too!

[RunForTheRoses]

Twitter

[Greyfox]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

and then we left Ky and I went to Engineering school her parents wanted nothing to do with me, I was a pariah for taking her out of her birthright I suppose.

No, they were threatened by the idea that you'd be infected by education.
They didn't want you and her to become so smart that you'd be stupid!

[thaskalos]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

If someone has a system to take advantage of they will.

My wife literally was born in a back woods town in Kentucky. Very few of her extended family works. They just all have kids and live off the dole. Everything they due its money under the table. If there is a system to take advantage of they do it. One time I started getting mail with my brother in laws name at my address. They were trying to get Az status to get gov stuff out of this state.

When I met my wife, on the back side of a race track in Ky when I worked there, and then we left Ky and I went to Engineering school her parents wanted nothing to do with me, I was a pariah for taking her out of her birthright I suppose.

Understandable. You were taking their daughter out of the "family business".