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11-04-2017, 09:49 PM
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#586
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
I would have given it to him last year.
But your comment underscores how he was a flash in the pan. He doesn't win HOTY because he only had 2 big wins in any calendar year. He was brilliamt but fizzled out so quickly he never really built his resume.
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Gun Runner was the highlight in a disappointing year. The older female award is going to a filly with just 3 starts for the year. That's bad.
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11-04-2017, 09:52 PM
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#587
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 8,798
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
Gun Runner was the highlight in a disappointing year. The older female award is going to a filly with just 3 starts for the year. That's bad.
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Interesting to read your two posts back to back. Because Arrogate's career demonstrates the incentive to retire quickly and race ultra-lightly, doing just enough to establish the stud vslue and then stopping.
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11-04-2017, 09:52 PM
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#588
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iceknight
A flash in the pan was Arazi. Arrogate delivered in BCC and Dubai. A broken clock is right twice? Anyhow, I was just being semantic no biggie. Arrogate's failure is a tough story for us followers of the sport just like Shared Belief was a heartbreaker....
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Arazi wasn't a flash in the pan. He was undefeated in 4 starts I think before killing it here. Then he came out of the race with a chip, and wasn't the same after.
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11-04-2017, 09:55 PM
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#589
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2017
Posts: 3,641
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fager Fan
He'll get a full book just like the rest of the top 10 or so new sires to the Ky roster, but he went from red hot to lukewarm, and his stud fee dropped by half over the last 3 races.
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As I read thru these posts, it seems a lot of the blame on Arrogate, and none on the trainer.
I am not sure talent like his just "goes away". Something that needs to happen isn't happening, I mean, it's possible, right? Seems like a horse of this stature/talent can be brought along for at least 5 years .....AFAIK, he isn't injured, right?
I think dilanesp may be on to something....
Last edited by clicknow; 11-04-2017 at 09:57 PM.
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11-04-2017, 10:21 PM
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#590
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Veteran
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 5,222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clicknow
As I read thru these posts, it seems a lot of the blame on Arrogate, and none on the trainer.
I am not sure talent like his just "goes away". Something that needs to happen isn't happening, I mean, it's possible, right? Seems like a horse of this stature/talent can be brought along for at least 5 years .....AFAIK, he isn't injured, right?
I think dilanesp may be on to something....
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I've said since his first loss that I think something's physically wrong with him. It's up to the trainer and owner to make sure it's not. And for God's sake, if you really think he hates the track, then you don't send him out for his last 3 races over it. The horse's rep gets knocked, but it doesn't mean the trainer (particularly) isn't possibly partly or wholly responsible.
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11-05-2017, 12:44 AM
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#591
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self medicated
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: toga
Posts: 3,090
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I don't understand the complaining about Arrogate. It was obvious he was in deep here off his prior two races. He couldn't be tossed IMO but the result is not much of a surprise. It was also obvious that the top finishers were in top form. Anyone that followed Gun Runner could see he's never been better.
They are not machines, they are not even human athletes, they can't tell you what's wrong. All you can go by is their most recent efforts and Arrogate has been underperforming for months now. This was not the shocker people are trying to make out of it. Simply put, it is, what it is.
Last edited by burnsy; 11-05-2017 at 12:47 AM.
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11-05-2017, 12:51 AM
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#592
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Dark Side of the Moon
Posts: 5,870
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Quote:
Originally Posted by burnsy
I don't understand the complaining about Arrogate. It was obvious he was in deep here off his prior two races. He couldn't be tossed IMO but the result is not much of a surprise. It was also obvious that the top finishers were in top form. Anyone that followed Gun Runner could see he's never been better.
They are not machines, they are not even human athletes, they can't tell you what's wrong. All you can go by is their most recent efforts and Arrogate has been underperforming for months now. This was not the shocker people are trying to make out of it. Simply put, it is, what it is.
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its a product of the current game, these very protected campaigns that prop up records and stack wins has jaded us that when horses lose it means a little more.
These are not machines, sometimes they go wrong, in Arrogates case some say it means he was a flash in the pan, a never was so to speak.
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11-05-2017, 01:12 AM
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#593
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 28,570
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His 2016 Travers race came out of no-where...and his "greatness" vanished as quickly as it had appeared. Arrogate's case is a head-scratcher of the type that we don't often see.
__________________
"Theory is knowledge that doesn't work. Practice is when everything works and you don't know why."
-- Hermann Hesse
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11-05-2017, 01:31 AM
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#594
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: East Texas
Posts: 1,338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thaskalos
His 2016 Travers race came out of no-where...and his "greatness" vanished as quickly as it had appeared. Arrogate's case is a head-scratcher of the type that we don't often see.
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I see two possibilities: either there is an underlying physical issue that has eluded what I presume are the best veterinary diagnosticians available, or Arrogate simply doesn't want to do this any more.
Clearly Dubai was stressful for Arrogate as evidenced by his post-trip weight loss. I know very little about race training, but I do own horses, and being cooped up in a stall, as he reportedly was for four months, is not conducive to a happy equine, especially those of the warmblood variety. Maybe things would have turned out differently if he'd been turned out to a nice, quiet pasture for a couple of months, to just be a horse for a little while after those four grueling races. Who knows. I'm just speculating.
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11-05-2017, 06:10 AM
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#595
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Boston+Ocala
Posts: 23,769
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in horse racing, you are only as good as your last race. as stated before ARROGATE won on a phony race track in Dubai. had he have been on the pace like GUNRUNNER was you would not have found that horse with a search warrant that day. instead, he broke bad and dead last, stayed away from the pace and swooped the field on a wide track. this happens all the time at The Mountain.
what we saw yesterday with GUNRUNNER was a truly great horse. he took every punch a horse could take and put every challenge to rest.
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11-05-2017, 07:42 AM
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#596
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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I didn't see how anyone could bet Arrogate yesterday after he ran so much slower over the same track in his last two starts.
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11-05-2017, 07:49 AM
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#597
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Lehigh Valley, PA.
Posts: 7,464
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mulerider
I see two possibilities: either there is an underlying physical issue that has eluded what I presume are the best veterinary diagnosticians available, or Arrogate simply doesn't want to do this any more.
Clearly Dubai was stressful for Arrogate as evidenced by his post-trip weight loss. I know very little about race training, but I do own horses, and being cooped up in a stall, as he reportedly was for four months, is not conducive to a happy equine, especially those of the warmblood variety. Maybe things would have turned out differently if he'd been turned out to a nice, quiet pasture for a couple of months, to just be a horse for a little while after those four grueling races. Who knows. I'm just speculating.
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All of that is possible. A racehorse can be completely sound and physically in peak condition and still not perform up to its top ability if the horse has soured on racing or is simply not mentally competitive.
There was a great trotter named Mack Lobell who was shipped to Europe to compete in their prestigious races. He was put in quarantine, which he despised. When they brought him out to train he refused to move. He literally stood still outside of his stall and refused. Eventually he got over it and has tremendous success racing in Europe.
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11-05-2017, 10:05 AM
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#598
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Veteran
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Lincoln, NE
Posts: 11,474
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Not gonna lie.
That was a hella fun weekend.
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11-05-2017, 10:14 AM
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#599
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,439
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Anyone ready to anoint Gun Runner world’s best has to take into consideration Collected ran step for step with him. I’m wondering if the tractors circled the track a few times during the turf race. If not they both freaked.
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11-05-2017, 10:16 AM
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#600
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The Voice of Reason!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Canandaigua, New york
Posts: 112,888
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dilanesp
Horse of the three months.
GR deserves it.
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Horse of 6 months.
AFTER Arrogate humiliated him and went on vacation.
GR is a worthy second place finisher. But He did NOT win the two biggest races.
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