Religion II

[PaceAdvantage]

BTW, I know Boxcar hates wasting time watching videos, but I'd like to hear his commentary on the above video starting around the 22:12 mark.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

BTW, I know Boxcar hates wasting time watching videos, but I'd like to hear his commentary on the above video starting around the 22:12 mark.

Why don't you give us your condensed version?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Why don't you give us your condensed version?

If you fast forward to the 22:12 mark, it only takes FOUR minutes to watch. Quicker than I can produce a condensed version here.

Not asking you to watch the whole thing. Just the Rabbi talking from 22:12 to the end...a whopping four minutes.

He explains quite succinctly why there is no Trinity in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and Jewish theology, among other things.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

If you fast forward to the 22:12 mark, it only takes FOUR minutes to watch. Quicker than I can produce a condensed version here.

Not asking you to watch the whole thing. Just the Rabbi talking from 22:12 to the end...a whopping four minutes.

He explains quite succinctly why there is no Trinity in the Hebrew Bible (Old Testament) and Jewish theology, among other things.

Then I don't have to waste my time. As I said yesterday, I wrote a post on the Religion thread with NUMEROUS OT (and NT for that matter) cites that support the doctrine of the Trinity. Even Deut 6:4 -- the central OT text that teaches monotheism -- intimates the Trinity!

Deut 6:4
4 "Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God -- the Lord is one! 5 "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
NASB

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Then I don't have to waste my time. As I said yesterday, I wrote a post on the Religion thread with NUMEROUS OT (and NT for that matter) cites that support the doctrine of the Trinity. Even Deut 6:4 -- the central OT text that teaches monotheism -- intimates the Trinity!

Deut 6:4
4 "Hear, O Israel! The Lord is our God -- the Lord is one! 5 "And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your might.
NASB

There is no Trinity in Jewish Theology, there is no Trinity in the Old Testament, and you sir shouldn't even post in this thread any longer. You have zero interest in discussion, only the sound of one hand clapping.

Afraid to watch 4 minutes of a Rabbi talking...you're a farce!

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

There is no Trinity in Jewish Theology, there is no Trinity in the Old Testament, and you sir shouldn't even post in this thread any longer. You have zero interest in discussion, only the sound of one hand clapping.

Afraid to watch 4 minutes of a Rabbi talking...you're a farce!

Fine. Then address the problem Jesus presented to the Pharisees in Matthew 22. Who is Yawheh in the OT and who is Adoniy in the OT? And these two questions must be settled before you can begin to understand PS 110:1 to which Jesus alluded. Don't tell me that I don't want to have discussion when you are the one ignoring the problem Jesus presented!

Furthermore, if you are so honestly and genuinely interested in learning what the OT teaches about the Trinity, you would have by now dug out my post 19844 in the Religious thread and started tearing through all the OT citations I posted therein! This is hardly the first time the doctrine of the Trinity has been broached in these two threads. Methinks you're projecting your own farcical motives unto me by even broaching this topic with me. You have about as much interest in learning the truth as any of my cats have in eating a bowl of fruit. But to help you out and help you to save time, I am posting a copy of the salient portions of the above mentioned post that I wrote back on 6/15/15.

God the Father

Genesis 1:1; 2:7; Exodus 3:14; 6:2-3; 15:11ff.; 20:1ff.; Leviticus 22:2; Deuteronomy 6:4; 32:6; 1 Chronicles 29:10; Psalm 19:1-3; Isaiah 43:3,15; 64:8; Jeremiah 10:10; 17:13; Matthew 6:9ff.; 7:11; 23:9; 28:19; Mark 1:9-11; John 4:24; 5:26; 14:6-13; 17:1-8; Acts 1:7; Romans 8:14-15; 1 Corinthians 8:6; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 4:6; Colossians 1:15; 1 Timothy 1:17; Hebrews 11:6; 12:9; 1 Peter 1:17; 1 John 5:7.

God the Son

Genesis 18:1ff.; Psalms 2:7ff.; 110:1ff.; Isaiah 7:14; 53; Matthew 1:18-23; 3:17; 8:29; 11:27; 14:33; 16:16,27; 17:5; 27; 28:1-6,19; Mark 1:1; 3:11; Luke 1:35; 4:41; 22:70; 24:46; John 1:1-18,29; 10:30,38; 11:25-27; 12:44-50; 14:7-11; 16:15-16,28; 17:1-5, 21-22; 20:1-20,28; Acts 1:9; 2:22-24; 7:55-56; 9:4-5,20; Romans 1:3-4; 3:23-26; 5:6-21; 8:1-3,34; 10:4; 1 Corinthians 1:30; 2:2; 8:6; 15:1-8,24-28; 2 Corinthians 5:19-21; 8:9; Galatians 4:4-5; Ephesians 1:20; 3:11; 4:7-10; Philippians 2:5-11; Colossians 1:13-22; 2:9; 1 Thessalonians 4:14-18; 1 Timothy 2:5-6; 3:16; Titus 2:13-14; Hebrews 1:1-3; 4:14-15; 7:14-28; 9:12-15,24-28; 12:2; 13:8; 1 Peter 2:21-25; 3:22; 1 John 1:7-9; 3:2; 4:14-15; 5:9; 2 John 7-9; Revelation 1:13-16; 5:9-14; 12:10-11; 13:8; 19:16.

God the Holy Spirit

Genesis 1:2; Judges 14:6; Job 26:13; Psalms 51:11; 139:7ff.; Isaiah 61:1-3; Joel 2:28-32; Matthew 1:18; 3:16; 4:1; 12:28-32; 28:19; Mark 1:10,12; Luke 1:35; 4:1,18-19; 11:13; 12:12; 24:49; John 4:24; 14:16-17,26; 15:26; 16:7-14; Acts 1:8; 2:1-4,38; 4:31; 5:3; 6:3; 7:55; 8:17,39; 10:44; 13:2; 15:28; 16:6; 19:1-6; Romans 8:9-11,14-16,26-27; 1 Corinthians 2:10-14; 3:16; 12:3-11,13; Galatians 4:6; Ephesians 1:13-14; 4:30; 5:18; 1 Thessalonians 5:19; 1 Timothy 3:16; 4:1; 2 Timothy 1:14; 3:16; Hebrews 9:8,14; 2 Peter 1:21; 1 John 4:13; 5:6-7; Revelation 1:10; 22:17.

Finally, one of the reasons I don't do videos is that I'm not debating or discussing issues with the people in the vids. If you're too lazy to paraphrase in condensed form the Rabbi's arguments (assuming you think they're strong which obviously you do), then that is your problem, not mine. Of course, another viable option would be for you to find this Rabbi and invite him over to this forum so that he and I can engage one another.

Have a nice evening, sir. But please...don't presume to tell me, out of your self-confessed ignorance of the scriptures, that the Trinity is not taught in OT Theology. You have no idea just how farcical that sounds!

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Afraid to watch 4 minutes of a Rabbi talking...you're a farce!

LOCK HIM UP! LOCK HIM UP!

No, I'm not back, but that was too good to resist.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Finally, one of the reasons I don't do videos is that I'm not debating or discussing issues with the people in the vids. If you're too lazy to paraphrase in condensed form the Rabbi's arguments (assuming you think they're strong which obviously you do), then that is your problem, not mine.

BS. Why should I go and alter or paraphrase the man's words when for four whole minutes, they can fall on your ears and YOU can hear them and then reply. How stupid would it be for me to paraphrase when you can get it right from the horse's mouth? A man who is far more an expert on the OT then I am and I dare say, more of an expert then you are as well. And without a doubt more of an expert on Jewish theology than you are...if he's telling me there is nothing about a Trinity in the Old Testament, who should I give more weight to? His thoughts or yours? A man who has literally spent his entire adult life studying the Torah, or you?

No thanks. Watch the video, or don't. I don't really care. But this little conversation is over unless you do.

I will, however leave you with one direct quote from the video:

"(Jewish theology holds that) God has never and will never assume a human form. Once you deal with the reification or the corporealization of the diety, you are violating a tenant of God being infinite and non-material."

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Why don't you give us your condensed version?

Would you read a transcript of the last four minutes?

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

BS. Why should I go and alter or paraphrase the man's words when for four whole minutes, they can fall on your ears and YOU can hear them and then reply. How stupid would it be for me to paraphrase when you can get it right from the horse's mouth? A man who is far more an expert on the OT then I am and I dare say, more of an expert then you are as well. And without a doubt more of an expert on Jewish theology than you are...if he's telling me there is nothing about a Trinity in the Old Testament, who should I give more weight to? His thoughts or yours? A man who has literally spent his entire adult life studying the Torah, or you?

No thanks. Watch the video, or don't. I don't really care. But this little conversation is over unless you do.

I will, however leave you with one direct quote from the video:

"(Jewish theology holds that) God has never and will never assume a human form. Once you deal with the reification or the corporealization of the diety, you are violating a tenant of God being infinite and non-material."

So, I guess The Expert Teacher of All Times (a/k/a Jesus Christ) has shut your mouth too, just as he shut the mouth of the Jewish "expert" detractors of his day? You cannot address the problem in Ps 110:1, can you? You cannot tell us who YHWH is and who Adoniy is in the OT, can you? I guarantee you that your so-called expert modern day Rabbi's level of expertise is no better than than the vast majority of Scribes and Pharisees of Jesus' day.

And, yes, you should give more weight to any born-again Christian's views, since we're the only ones in this world Christ has graciously redeemed from the kingdom of darkness. Your beloved modern day Rabbi is as spiritually blind as a bat is physically blind. Look him up. Invite him over here; and then I'll show you just how pathetically ignorant of spiritual truth he is.

Or here's an idea...assuming this Rabbi is still alive: Write to him and share the Matthew 22 dilemma passage with him and ask him to refute it and then share his argument with us. I'm confident that, if nothing else, he'll entertain you with quite a song and dance routine that you should enjoy immensely.

Have a nice day, sir.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Actor

Would you read a transcript of the last four minutes?

Sure, I'll read the transcript. Beam it up, Scotty.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Or here's an idea...assuming this Rabbi is still alive: Write to him and share the Matthew 22 dilemma passage with him and ask him to refute it and then share his argument with us. I'm confident that, if nothing else, he'll entertain you with quite a song and dance routine that you should enjoy immensely.

Have a nice day, sir.

Why would a Jew consider anything in the NT as relevant?

[hcap]

Originally Posted by bollixedupcar

So, I guess The Expert Teacher of All Times (a/k/a Jesus Christ) has shut your mouth too, just as he shut the mouth of the Jewish "expert" detractors of his day?

Gee, and I thought you were the n "The Expert Teacher of All Times "

Question teach. What will you do when thread " Religion xxxx " is still fetching occasional suckers and for extremely obscure reasons you are STILL pretending for pages and pages, you know what religion is???????

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

Why would a Jew consider anything in the NT as relevant?

Ps 110:1 is in the OT. You don't understand what Jesus did to the Jews of his day? He turned their OT scriptures upon their own heads as heaping hot coals!

So, tells us Mr. I-Have-No-Answers: Who is Yahweh in the OT and who is Adoniy in the OT? Why don't you avail yourself of a concordance and study those two terms and see how they're used in the OT? And then get back to us with your findings.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by hcap

Gee, and I thought you were the n "The Expert Teacher of All Times "

Question teach. What will you do when thread " Religion xxxx " is still fetching occasional suckers and for extremely obscure reasons you are STILL pretending for pages and pages, you know what religion is???????

Oh no...a disciple can never be greater than his Master. But all I need to do is follow in his footsteps to shut the mouth of His detractors just as he did in his day.