Will Monmouth Park still be standing in 2025?

[Brogan]

Originally Posted by castaway01

And I'm in NJ---we've had three racetracks close and the three still standing are in critical condition. Where is this fanbase you speak of?

Perhaps I'm having a senior moment, but what is the third track that closed, after Garden State and Atlantic City?

[HalvOnHorseracing]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

for any type of gambling business the worst thing that can happen is contraction. once one place closes it leads to less and less interest.

for the many reasons stated here this game is at a very low point. all you have to do is look at Parx and you will see what this game is all about now.

but i witnessed the casino business in Nevada at a worse point of time back in the late 70's and 80's. those places were run by wise guys that used the junket system to get people into the dessert, cheat people out of their money and then send leg breakers over to those suckers homes to collect the money. the joints up and down the vegas strip were all going bankrupt. somehow they managed to keep the doors open in most of the places.

in comes some revolutionary new people that stepped up to the plate and revamped the whole business, they came up with the video machines and built massive resorts up and down the strip.

instead of cheating people out of their money, they operated on the square. they got rid of the junketeers, hookers in the hotel, and in comes family business stuffed with money spending it all over the resort hotels that popped up.

there are now about 5 times more rooms in that town than they had in 1970, and people pay top notch money to stay in them. the hotel operators don't have to cheat their customer's and they got lines of people waiting to check into the hotels.


the exact same thing will happen in horse racing once we get some bold new faces willing to step up to the plate and take some swings.

No hookers in the hotels?

One big difference with racing is that they don't need to get you to the track to get your money. 3-5 tracks operating on any given raceday works fine because there is full simulcasting. Imagine the handle If you had Belmont at 1:00, Churchill at 2:00, Arlington at 3:00, Santa Anita at 4:00, and Emerald Downs at 7:00. All the action is limited to those tracks, and you have a.m. to p.m. racing. Add up all the handle from all the tracks on a Saturday and imagine that coursing through five tracks. Connect the tracks if you want - the Saturday Pick 5. Sort of like a football parlay.

However, and I'm a broken record on this, you've got to get rid of hulking old plants designed 90 years ago and replace them with efficient, modern, and not so hulking buildings with the same stuff in them that that turned your casinos around. Casinos make half their money on non-gaming activities. Yes, we need a new model but CDI and Magna don't look like they will be it. We're looking at a sea change and someone with the cajones to stick with the experiment.

I'm in the camp that says new games, new bets don't bring new fans in. A fair game does.

[onefast99]

Good crowd yesterday at MP lots of people, good to see the young families coming out. The food truck festival is a huge hit for the track and it is a three day affair this time and some very competitive racing as well with the Red Bank anchoring the card. Today will be another big crowd, hopefully this continues.

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Good crowd yesterday at MP lots of people, good to see the young families coming out. The food truck festival is a huge hit for the track and it is a three day affair this time and some very competitive racing as well with the Red Bank anchoring the card. Today will be another big crowd, hopefully this continues.

It's mobbed today and it's great to be here! Heard we are getting new this in the picnic area too!

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by alhattab

It's mobbed today and it's great to be here! Heard we are getting new this in the picnic area too!

great day today no one wanted to leave after the last race the 9th hard to believe they couldn't run 11 races today on track handle was very strong today.

[alhattab]

Originally Posted by Brogan

Perhaps I'm having a senior moment, but what is the third track that closed, after Garden State and Atlantic City?

Guttenberg

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by Brogan

Perhaps I'm having a senior moment, but what is the third track that closed, after Garden State and Atlantic City?

I think I got confused between the posts, but I was trying to say that three tracks that ran full thoroughbred meets no longer do (Meadowlands, Garden State, Atlantic City). Meadowlands obviously is still open and is a premier harness track but just has its few days of turf racing left.

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Originally Posted by lamboguy

for any type of gambling business the worst thing that can happen is contraction. once one place closes it leads to less and less interest.

for the many reasons stated here this game is at a very low point. all you have to do is look at Parx and you will see what this game is all about now.

but i witnessed the casino business in Nevada at a worse point of time back in the late 70's and 80's. those places were run by wise guys that used the junket system to get people into the dessert, cheat people out of their money and then send leg breakers over to those suckers homes to collect the money. the joints up and down the vegas strip were all going bankrupt. somehow they managed to keep the doors open in most of the places.

in comes some revolutionary new people that stepped up to the plate and revamped the whole business, they came up with the video machines and built massive resorts up and down the strip.

instead of cheating people out of their money, they operated on the square. they got rid of the junketeers, hookers in the hotel, and in comes family business stuffed with money spending it all over the resort hotels that popped up.

there are now about 5 times more rooms in that town than they had in 1970, and people pay top notch money to stay in them. the hotel operators don't have to cheat their customer's and they got lines of people waiting to check into the hotels.


the exact same thing will happen in horse racing once we get some bold new faces willing to step up to the plate and take some swings.

Years back Vegas actually made more money on gaming and broke even or lost on F&B along with the hotel. It has done a complete 180 now with F&B and rooms accounting for a larger percentage of their profits.

Same thing is happening with racing. All the movement to the "big days" and luxury amenities that are all the rage. Attendance capped to give a sense of exclusivity while charging higher prices. Most tracks are in a purse overpayment situation to begin with and yes the casino subs help significantly. There is no denying the direction this industry is going at this point.

[thespaah]

Originally Posted by alhattab

At least there were jobs at Showplace. I think it closed 2 years ago or so

Really? I worked there in the summer of 1979.
it was new then.
I met some of the top guys that raced their stock at Meadowlands.
Ted Wing, Bill O'Donnell, Bill Robinson, Larry Remmen to name a few.
I just looked and found that Showplace closed as a training facility in 2015.

[onefast99]

Drazin was on TVG with Tom Cassidy on Monday. They discussed the Sports Wagering issue and a new bill being proposed by Frank Pallone. He felt the Supreme Court would end up passing on hearing the sports wagering bill issue and throw it right back to the individual State. He also thought that PASPA would indeed be re-worked as its time has come and gone. He also stated that the NBA and MLB were on the side of sports wagering and everyone needed to come together on the issue as both of these leagues would like a Federal oversight. Again this alone wont save racing in NJ but it is a good start.

[alhattab]

http://www.app.com/story/sports/hors...end/102305248/

In sum- positive spin on what seemed to be a pretty good weekend. Overall numbers +10% range to last year. Too bad they couldn't get another 2-3 races carded, and Monday was pretty much a weather-driven bust.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by alhattab

http://www.app.com/story/sports/hors...end/102305248/

In sum- positive spin on what seemed to be a pretty good weekend. Overall numbers +10% range to last year. Too bad they couldn't get another 2-3 races carded, and Monday was pretty much a weather-driven bust.

Everything went well and the numbers don't lie.
I would look to bring in a marketing specialist and ask Mr. Kulina to retire, this has to happen now as the track tries to bring in the "younger" generation of bettors. Bob Kulina did a good job for this track but it is now 2017 and a change in the way the track markets itself is desperately needed. The state also has to step up and take care of the crumbling infra structure, a big part of the grand stand seating area has fallen apart, combine that with a lot of bird droppings in the owners boxes, broken or badly worn chairs and TVs just add to what needs to be taken care of by the owners of the facility, it is their obligation not those leasing it.

[SuperPickle]

Originally Posted by onefast99

Pickle
Gural built the new grandstand with $100 million in loans from the Hard rock in exchange for a 12% equity stake I've posted this at least 20 times. I am sure you will have a few followers that will believe some of the stuff you are writing but looking at many of the posts in regards to Monmouth Park , sports wagering a revenue stream and a casino at the Meadowlands you have been off base with most of your posts.

I've tried to give you some space on the Monmouth stuff but you continue to claim I'm not accurate while you post a combination of half truths and lies.

The statement above simply isn't true even if you posted it 20 times.

The new grandstand at the Meadowlands while technically "paid for by Gural" exists because the state guaranteed the money in the lease for a variety of situations including if someone other than Gural gets a casino in the Meadowlands.

http://www.politico.com/states/new-j...or-130m-096895

If the state didn't write into the lease multiple provisions or scenarios in which Gural and his partners get their money back for the grandstand if they don't get a casino there would be no grandstand. The idea that the state made it happen by the state guaranteeing the cost against a variety of scenarios is the true narrative.

So you habitually post this narrative that the Meadowlands grandstand is a private project paid for by Gural and his partners and they're taking on all this risk

I post that its all smoke and mirrors and the reality is if Gural doesn't get a casino he more than likely than not gets his $130 million back. It's not Gural taking a risk its the tax payers of New Jersey guaranteeing the loan.

This is how America works. A wealthy guy like Gural isn't this risk taker and entrepreneur you make him out to be. He's a rich guy who's bought off politicians and in the end he'll either get a casino or get all or a big part of his investment back. He's not taking on risk. The state of New Jersey is.

This is how the wealthy stay wealthy. they either win or draw but almost never lose.

[onefast99]

Originally Posted by SuperPickle

I've tried to give you some space on the Monmouth stuff but you continue to claim I'm not accurate while you post a combination of half truths and lies.

The statement above simply isn't true even if you posted it 20 times.

The new grandstand at the Meadowlands while technically "paid for by Gural" exists because the state guaranteed the money in the lease for a variety of situations including if someone other than Gural gets a casino in the Meadowlands.

http://www.politico.com/states/new-j...or-130m-096895

If the state didn't write into the lease multiple provisions or scenarios in which Gural and his partners get their money back for the grandstand if they don't get a casino there would be no grandstand. The idea that the state made it happen by the state guaranteeing the cost against a variety of scenarios is the true narrative.

So you habitually post this narrative that the Meadowlands grandstand is a private project paid for by Gural and his partners and they're taking on all this risk

I post that its all smoke and mirrors and the reality is if Gural doesn't get a casino he more than likely than not gets his $130 million back. It's not Gural taking a risk its the tax payers of New Jersey guaranteeing the loan.

This is how America works. A wealthy guy like Gural isn't this risk taker and entrepreneur you make him out to be. He's a rich guy who's bought off politicians and in the end he'll either get a casino or get all or a big part of his investment back. He's not taking on risk. The state of New Jersey is.

This is how the wealthy stay wealthy. they either win or draw but almost never lose.

You link a 16 month old story on American Dream who is the new suitor for the Xanadu project that has been going on since 2002 in the state of NJ and to this day has been an eye sore to millions. American Dream is building an amusement park with 4 roller coasters, theme based rides and a Kosher food court and several high end department stores such as Saks Fifth Avenue which has been closing brick and mortar over the past 5 years. American Dream is scheduled to open in the spring of 2019. They have as of today issued another $800 million in bonds that the borough is not involved in the issuance of the non-recourse, unrated bonds which means that East Rutherford, or the state of NJ or the NJSEA are not liable in case of default.
If you think that the NJSEA will pay him $130m for what many believe will eventually be a Casino and hotel complex on his site and he takes it he will be leaving millions on the table, if not approaching a billion or so. He will also walk away from Winners in Bayonne which he put over $16m into, an OTW facility that is doing well. You said he was smart, he is and he isn't going anywhere as two casinos in Northern NJ wont be allowed to be within at least 20 miles of one another.Gural and Hard Rock are part of a group that will have the first right of refusal on a casino if the Northern NJ casinos are approved by the voters of NJ(Hard Rock just took over the Taj Mahal in AC), which may not be until 2020. Gural even came out and said he will wait the 6 years for NY to build out three casinos and then the NJ voters will realize how casinos in Northern NJ are indeed a great idea!
Take into consideration that NJ will have a new governor, as former Governor Codey said three weeks ago at the Monmouth Park opening luncheon "things will be better when Gov. Chris Christie is out of office".

[MonmouthParkJoe]

Weather has killed us. We lost 11 races on the turf and field size hurt big time as a result. Monday was especially bad with avg field size just over 5. Previous to that we hovered around the 7.5 mark. Handle hasnt been great but not as bad as it could be. Food trucks brought in alot of people but as we all know they havent bet with the per cap dropping significantly on those days.

I will be looking at how we stack up this meet compared to last tomorrow, but i would imagine we havent been able to run as many as we did over the same time frame.

That being said, Saturdays card is great. 12 races, field size up and the stake with a big field. Weather looks perfect too. Maybe the rain will hold off for sunday as well