Flightline

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by azeri98

So does your theory diminish a pitcher like Sandy Koufax for example who had a short career compared to other great pitchers? His stretch from 1962 to 66 is just insane .He is considered by many as the best ever even though his era of dominance was short just like Flightline. Add Bobby Orr, Bo Jackson or Gale Sayers, just to name a few.

I'm not saying you can't be a top flight athlete with a short career. Bo Jackson is, indeed, the best athlete I ever saw, and I saw a fair amount of him when he was with the Raiders in LA.

But I am saying that it's misleading to cite statistics that essentially celebrate short careers, such as undefeated records, average winning margins, etc. A horse like Spectacular Bid did a lot more than Flightline did. And yes, he lost a few races and didn't have a gigantic average winning margin- running against horses like Affirmed can do that to you!

Flightline is wonderful. I have said nothing negative about his races. But he doesn't run enough, and it's unfair to compare him to horses who ran a lot more and accomplished a lot more.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by Inner Dirt

Landaluce was pretty dominate, she averaged a 9.3 length margin in 5 races until she sadly died of colic. Flightline's record sounds pretty tough to beat.

Landaluce was dominate, but consider this. Landaluce ran in one Grade one race, against 2 yo fillies. She won that by two lengths.
Flightline has run in four grade one races against the best horses currently competing. His margin of victory in those races were 6 lengths, eight and a quarter lengths, eleven and a half lengths and nineteen and a quarter lengths.

[pandy]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I was more impressed by this effort than the last one. The last effort was a 126, but he was stalking an overmatched long shot on a track that was on the speed favoring side of honest. Today he was chasing as fast a Grade 1 router as you are going to see, they opened up a huge lead on the rest of the field in fast fractions, on a track that if anything was one the was on closer side of honest, and he still had plenty left at the end. It’s a shame the economics may dictate that they are going to retire him because I’d love to see what kind of magic he could perform with a few more starts.

I feel the same way. Today's race was the class test, a very good field compared to anything he's faced. And to chase a hot pace set by an outstanding racehorse and have that much left is very unusual.

Damn shame if they don't run him a few more times. Let him try to win the Pegasus and The World Cup, then retire him.

[jimmyb]

The race was run the way i expected. The only shot at Flightline getting beat was if LIG ran him into the ground with fast fractions. Never fazed Flightline who ran a game LIG down and was much the best. Flightline is in a class by himself.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by mostpost

Eager to see CJ’s figures for the race. .

144

[The Arbiter]

Originally Posted by SG4

If he's going to skip the Pegasus, Saudi Arabia & Dubai then what are they going to do, sit on him for 5 months until the Met Mile? If they're not going to challenge him with one of the big races in the next 3 months then is the whole plan for the year to hope he stays healthy enough to make the Pacific Classic & Breeders Cup & have a 3 race campaign? That'd be pretty sad given what an exciting colt he is.

Back in 2021, SG4 hit the stone cold trifecta forecasting Flightline's 2022 campaign

[menifee]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

I'm not saying you can't be a top flight athlete with a short career. Bo Jackson is, indeed, the best athlete I ever saw, and I saw a fair amount of him when he was with the Raiders in LA.

But I am saying that it's misleading to cite statistics that essentially celebrate short careers, such as undefeated records, average winning margins, etc. A horse like Spectacular Bid did a lot more than Flightline did. And yes, he lost a few races and didn't have a gigantic average winning margin- running against horses like Affirmed can do that to you!

Flightline is wonderful. I have said nothing negative about his races. But he doesn't run enough, and it's unfair to compare him to horses who ran a lot more and accomplished a lot more.

This is good analysis. He’s an amazing horse - he’s a very fast horse. But these comparisons to Secretariat, etc. are short sighted. He’s running as fast or slightly faster than Ghostzapper - no one thinks Ghostzapper was an all time top 5 horse. Unfortunately, he has not run a lot of races over a sustained period of time and probably never will, to be considered a top 5 horse.

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by pandy

I feel the same way. Today's race was the class test, a very good field compared to anything he's faced. And to chase a hot pace set by an outstanding racehorse and have that much left is very unusual.

Damn shame if they don't run him a few more times. Let him try to win the Pegasus and The World Cup, then retire him.

The World Cup is the end of March. I wondered how they go about transitioning a stallion from the racetrack to the Breeding Shed. So, I asked the Google machine. What I found is that they recommend 90 days for the young stallion to get acclimated before they cover a mare. They say the combination of the new environment, the presence of older intimidating older stallions and other factors can make it difficult for a young stallion to perform.
Following that formula, Flightline would miss the Breeding season if he ran in the Dubai World Cup.

So if you are going to race him at all, why not go all out.

Here is an ambitious 2023 program for Flightline which will prove his greatness beyond question.

Late January: Pegasus Cup
Early March: The Big Cap
Early April: Oakland Handicap.
Mid/late June: Ascot Gold Cup
Early August: The Whitney
Early September: The Paciffic Classic.
Early October: The Arc.
Early November: The Breeders Cup Classic

[bishlap]

Originally Posted by menifee

This is good analysis. He’s an amazing horse - he’s a very fast horse. But these comparisons to Secretariat, etc. are short sighted. He’s running as fast or slightly faster than Ghostzapper - no one thinks Ghostzapper was an all time top 5 horse. Unfortunately, he has not run a lot of races over a sustained period of time and probably never will, to be considered a top 5 horse.

This is the most sense I've heard/read thus far. I also believe that sustained dominance is a major factor in comparing horses. I'm of the opinion right now, this is the best horse I've seen since Spectacular Bid and if he never runs again he will be remembered as great nonetheless. The major difference in a Flightline and greats of the past- 1970's and before is like most dominant horses now/last 25 years is they have not been in any wars. Look at what was thrown at Dr. Fager when he ran in stakes races especially if Damascus was in the field.... unfortunately, we'll probably never know bc today was Flight's toughest victory thanks to Life is good at least "GOING FOR IT." Life got wasted for his effort. Affirmed for instance won/WON 18(?) Grade 1's... that's more races than the "good/great" horses of today run in their lifetime.
ANYWAY, The great statesman, Andy Beyer, will have more to say on how great Flightline is.
Thanks all posters for a great and lively discussion.

[depalma113]

There is no way in hell Life is Good ran 1:09.62 for 6 furlongs. That third quarter was run sub :24 seconds.

Even rudimentally just pausing the video at the half mile pole and pausing it again at the 6 furlong mark on YouTube you can see he ran that quarter in 23 and change.

If the half mile time of :45.47 is correct, than the time given for six furlongs is not just wrong, it's very wrong.

[Brisk Urging]

After watching Epicenter and Domestic Spending get injured Flightline needs to retire.

[zico20]

The owners say they haven't made a decision on running him next year. : Why can't they say what we all already know. "If a breeder gives us the money we are asking for then his career is over, if not then we will run again." It is that simple.

Incredible race but like others have posted he isn't one of the all time greats off of just six races. Let us see him do the Pegasus, Saudi, and Dubai. That would be three races in three months. Give him two months off then do the Met, Whitney, JCGC, Woodward and Breeders Classic. Eight races in 10 months. If he can win all of them then I would put him in the top five.

[Brisk Urging]

Originally Posted by zico20

The owners say they haven't made a decision on running him next year. : Why can't they say what we all already know. "If a breeder gives us the money we are asking for then his career is over, if not then we will run again." It is that simple.

Incredible race but like others have posted he isn't one of the all time greats off of just six races. Let us see him do the Pegasus, Saudi, and Dubai. That would be three races in three months. Give him two months off then do the Met, Whitney, JCGC, Woodward and Breeders Classic. Eight races in 10 months. If he can win all of them then I would put him in the top five.

This isnt the roaring 70's

[PalaceOfFortLarned]

Big time horse.

Man it would be great if they ran him next year.

[rastajenk]

Originally Posted by zico20

Let us see him do the Pegasus, Saudi, and Dubai.

How about, let's see him not do Saudi and Dubai.