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Old 06-11-2012, 02:15 PM   #16
MAGICHORSEMAN
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Union Rags and pool

The twinspires pool spent tons of money on Union Rags in the Ky Derby twinspires pool and lost. And had he lost the Belmont there would have been tons of people saying that it was un bee lieee ablee that this group would have spent tons of money on him again only to see him lose.

Its kind of unfair to make comments after the races since before the races are run there are all kinds of things that can go wrong.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:37 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by MAGICHORSEMAN
The twinspires pool spent tons of money on Union Rags in the Ky Derby twinspires pool and lost. And had he lost the Belmont there would have been tons of people saying that it was un bee lieee ablee that this group would have spent tons of money on him again only to see him lose.

Its kind of unfair to make comments after the races since before the races are run there are all kinds of things that can go wrong.
They could have singled Union Rags on each of the five tickets and still not had 6 out of 6, would have had 5 out of 6 multiple times though.

What I don't understand is how they could not make a call in the Woody Stephens, they are supposed to be some of the best handicappers in the game but still wheeled the race on EVERY ticket. I know hindsight is 20/20 but geez make a stand.
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Old 06-11-2012, 02:54 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAGICHORSEMAN
The twinspires pool spent tons of money on Union Rags in the Ky Derby twinspires pool and lost. And had he lost the Belmont there would have been tons of people saying that it was un bee lieee ablee that this group would have spent tons of money on him again only to see him lose.

Its kind of unfair to make comments after the races since before the races are run there are all kinds of things that can go wrong.
You just hit the nail on the head....there are all kinds of things that can go wrong....and in the Derby everything did go wrong for Union Rags.

Now, armed with a 59 workout and Johnny V in the boot for both that workout and the Belmont, to not allocate the same amount of P6 coverage to Union Rags as the other two Belmont horses was downright ridiculous. This is especially true given Union Rags owning a G1 win over the track (Champagne) and with Paynter owning a total of 4 lifetime starts and only a 4th place finish in a G1 (SA Derby) and entering the Belmont off a win in a $50,000 allowance race.

The notion that the group lost a lot of money on Union Rags in the Derby Pick 6 pool does not excuse them for relegating him to second tier status in light of everything that transpired between the moment the gate opened on Derby Day until 6:40pm last Saturday. They simply didn't "get it" with Union Rags....period.

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Old 06-11-2012, 03:17 PM   #19
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I did not play the Pick 6 last Saturday, but based on my A's and B's for the Belmont Pick 6 races, here's a simple 5 ticket play for $8,100 that would have nailed it, shooting for a scenario where a minimum of 5 "A" horses win, with the other winner being an A or a B:


5,6,9 / 4,5,6,7 / 1,4,5 / 1,3,6 / 5,6,7 / 1,3,5,9 $2,592

5,6,9 / 4,5,6,7 / 1,4,5 / 1,3,6 / 2,3,4 / 3,5,9 $1,944

5,6,9 / 4,5,6,7 / 1,4,5 / 7,9 / 5,6,7 / 3,5,9 $1,296

5,6,9 / 2,8 / 1,4,5 / 1,3,6 / 5,6,7 / 3,5,9 $972

3,4 / 4,5,6,7 / 1,4,5 / 1,3,6 / 5,6,7 / 3,5,9 $1,296 Total: $8,100

The $1,944 ticket was the winner. Had the 10-1 Papaw Bodie (5) managed to nose the 6-1 Desert Blanc (4) in leg 5, the $2,592 ticket wins, with our "A" horses winning all 6 legs, resulting in more consolation payoffs and obviously a larger Pick 6 payout.

Our "B" horses are the ones that only appear only once in the entire group of tickets. Every other horse is an "A".

Quite frankly, IMHO, spending $8,100 in a Pick 6 without a carryover, even on Belmont Stakes day....isn't a great idea. The $15K payoff proved that. Had there been a two day carryover going in....by all means.....fire away!

Vinman

Last edited by Vinman; 06-11-2012 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 06-11-2012, 05:19 PM   #20
Karakiozis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapid Grey
They could have singled Union Rags on each of the five tickets and still not had 6 out of 6, would have had 5 out of 6 multiple times though.

What I don't understand is how they could not make a call in the Woody Stephens, they are supposed to be some of the best handicappers in the game but still wheeled the race on EVERY ticket. I know hindsight is 20/20 but geez make a stand.
Some of the best handicappers? who told you that? Usually the panel consists of the annual horse lottery winner A.K.A as DRF handicapper of the year,and a couple of wana-bes.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:31 AM   #21
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For obvious reasons, I've always defended the Players' Pools picks throughout the years. I do admit that Saturdays tickets puzzled me. As others may bash BRIS Prime Power, the handicappers will use BRIS data for 95% of the input. They must have abandoned that approach this time:

Race 6: #6 Teeth Of The Dog...... 1st in Prime Power
Race 7: #7 Caixa Electronica....... 1st in Prime Power
Race 8: #1 Tapitsfly.................. 2nd in Prime Power
Race 9: #6 Trinniberg............... 1st in Prime Power
Race 10: #4 Desert Blanc..... 3rd in Prime Power (in a photo w/#5 2nd PP)
Race 11: #3 Union Rags.... 2nd in Prime Power after scr of IHA, #9 3rd PP


I did not play the Pick 6, had 3 of 4 in the Pick 4. Did ok in race 7 with an exacta. I hit the Pic 3 in races 9 thru 11, the daily Double in races 10 to 11, the supers in races 10 and 11. I did not post my picks, but will share my ADW receipts since this is obvious Redboarding. Its a lot easier to pick 'em after the races are over.

RR

Last edited by rrpic6; 06-13-2012 at 09:33 AM.
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Old 06-13-2012, 09:44 AM   #22
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I did see that the Players Pool hit the Pick 6 on Friday for 56K. The usual "crickets" when they win. I did not see anyone post their tickets here? I did not read any negativity either? In fact, I was in the hospital for awhile Friday and did not know any of these results until now. Glad to see nothing changes around here.

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Old 06-13-2012, 10:25 AM   #23
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It has been 8 Years now. I am still hammering the craft. Oh Hammering (working on)last time I used that word I was wildly misunderstood.
I am Not a Veteran by any means. I still classify me as a Newbie.

I guess what I am saying is I rather use my picks instead of a pool where my money is directed by another. To me that sounds like purchasing a lottery ticket.
When I lose I rather be responsible. Also as a Newbie when I give a pool authority of my money, I at that time am not learning by doing. The learning is to Do.
Now I have a Mate that aides me, Butt he makes me makes me do the work and work then Make my Go. This would help me to grow in the Craft and cease relying on looking to so called Gurus.

Hope I am on point. If Not sorry Mates.
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Old 06-13-2012, 11:23 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by rrpic6
Glad to see nothing changes around here.

RR
Huh? Please point me to the message board that represents all topics with the utmost of care and fairness AND generates the same amount of activity...
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Old 06-13-2012, 01:48 PM   #25
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Huh? Please point me to the message board that represents all topics with the utmost of care and fairness AND generates the same amount of activity...
Just rehashing an old subject? Same responses now and then. Nothing changes but the date.

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Old 06-13-2012, 03:00 PM   #26
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I have a slightly different view on this. Yes, it's a bad bet, and yes I would never get involved with it. However, if it gets a bunch of newbies involved for $10 each and they hit $40 here and there, maybe it gets them interested and involved in betting. I don't really see the harm in it---it's no worse than Powerball or a million other hopeless bets.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:00 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by castaway01
I have a slightly different view on this. Yes, it's a bad bet, and yes I would never get involved with it. However, if it gets a bunch of newbies involved for $10 each and they hit $40 here and there, maybe it gets them interested and involved in betting. I don't really see the harm in it---it's no worse than Powerball or a million other hopeless bets.
Agree that it is a way to get more people involved without them having to rely on their own handicapping. Just wish Twinspires was more transparent with their info. As it is now the only way you can view their tickets is if you are in the pool. What is the harm of posting your plays after the fact for all to see? I'd like to see how they structured their winning Pick 6 ticket on Friday or how they did on their non Pick 6 wagers on Saturday.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:21 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by rrpic6
I did see that the Players Pool hit the Pick 6 on Friday for 56K. The usual "crickets" when they win. I did not see anyone post their tickets here? I did not read any negativity either? In fact, I was in the hospital for awhile Friday and did not know any of these results until now. Glad to see nothing changes around here.

RR
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't view the picks without having paid to play. So, while I heard they hit it, I never saw the tickets or the ROI. I would certainly be interested in seeing their tickets if you have access to them.
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Old 06-13-2012, 04:30 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by Rapid Grey
I'd like to see how they structured their winning Pick 6 ticket on Friday or how they did on their non Pick 6 wagers on Saturday.
After the races, I am able to structure $1 tickets with all singles.. Every time!
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Old 06-13-2012, 05:03 PM   #30
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you can't view the picks without having paid to play. So, while I heard they hit it, I never saw the tickets or the ROI. I would certainly be interested in seeing their tickets if you have access to them.
Sorry, since I'm no longer affiliated with TS, I'm not able to access them. In the Winticket.com days, we posted all the tickets as soon as the 1st leg ran. Usually someone from PA will post the TS tickets, meaning they were in for at least $10. My point was that someone on here will always post the losing picks, but not the winning ones. It must be human nature, like rubbernecking to see a car wreck, to relish someone else's losing, but not acknowledge the positive side of winning.

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