Religious

[TJDave]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Their lack of faith!

Which is none of your business.

[Show Me the Wire]

Since you don't understand my question about "whoever", let me help you.



Definition of whoever:

any person who: used to indicate a person or people whose identity is not known

no matter who: used to indicate a person or people whose identity is not important.

Using the definition of the word "whoever" as a substitution

"I have come [as] a light into the world, that any person, whose identity is not known, believes in Me should not abide in darkness. John 12:46

"no matter who , whose identity is not important, believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For " no matter, whose identity is not important, who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:11-13

"Whoever" means no identity such as the "elect" is included. It means any person or no matter who (any person).

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Their lack of faith! Especially those who are dishonest as the day is long. As I recall, Jesus "ranted" at those who refused to believe.

According to you their lack of faith, at this time, is predestined in eternity past by God. According to you, they have no choice about faith, due to God's will. Do you really not understand what you are saying?

Jesus ranted because all were called to believe, which is different than your version of God's plan.

[Show Me the Wire]

It is you who says that God saves all without exception.

Again quote me. Another straw argument based on a false representation.

[hcap]

There is a new movie making the rounds. It actually supports geocentrism.
Evidently produced and created by creationists.

And I thought boxcar was the only one left.

[YT="Boxcar''s Heaven"]/p8cBvMCucTg?[/YT]

http://galileowaswrong.blogspot.com/

The actual movie, The Principle, is scheduled for release in a theater near you in early 2014. It is a 90-minute documentary on the new evidence from modern cosmology that challenges the foundation of modernity – the Copernican Principle — that neither we on Earth are special or occupy a special place in the universe. In this six-minute opening you will recognize the familiar voice of Kate Mulgrew, our narrator. Mrs. Mulgrew is a four-decade veteran of stage and screen, one of her most famous roles was Captain Janeway on Star Trek Voyager. Our high-tech graphics were created by BUF Compaigne of Paris, France, the company that did the graphics for Life of Pi which won the Academy Award in 2012. Special effects for The Principle were created by SaintsLA. Music for The Principle was composed and orchestrated by Richard Robson, with our theme song sung by Jes Brieden.........

http://www.slate.com/blogs/bad_astro...ocentrism.html

Of all the wrongiest wrongs that ever wronged wrongness, Geocentrism is way up on the list. The idea that the Earth is the center of the Universe makes creationism look positively scientific in comparison. It might be edged out by people who think the Earth is flat, but just barely.

And yet somebody actually went out and made a “documentary” where, apparently, that is exactly what they’re trying to promote. It’s called The Principle, and it’s making the rounds on the ‘Net right now. Here’s the trailer. Be ye fairly warned, says I: head asplodey stuff enclosed.

[Actor]

Originally Posted by boxcar

I have little doubt that you will among the first in line to take the "mark of the beast", unless God saves you.

Boxcar

I have it on good authority, i.e., from a fundamentalist, that Visa/Mastercard is the "mark of the beast."

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Again quote me. Another straw argument based on a false representation.

Quote me whereby I have said that. Quote and give me the post number.
You're lying through your teeth and you know it. I have never said that God saves all without exception. That is YOUR position on the atonement, i.e. Christ died for all without exception.

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

According to you their lack of faith, at this time, is predestined in eternity past by God. According to you, they have no choice about faith, due to God's will. Do you really not understand what you are saying?

But their lack of faith is not God's fault. Even Thask and Actor have said they cannot believe, so they have unwittingly borne testimony to the veracity of scripture. But their inability to believe is not God's fault. Therefore, they do have a choice; yet unbelievers' depraved hearts are incapable of believing. So they choose according according to the flesh. And the mind set on the flesh cannot please God (Rom 8:6-7). Who do you blame for their unenviable, pitiful condition?

Jesus ranted because all were called to believe, which is different than your version of God's plan.

Many are indeed called outwardly but because the gospel is not heard and received in an honest and good heart, they cannot believe (Lk 8:10-15). And because the cannot, they will not. As Jesus said, "Many are called, but few are chosen".

If all are effectually called to believe, then the whole world would be saved. The entire world would have been granted the gift of faith. Go back and read the scriptures I posted in 11496.

Here's another scripture since you cannot seem to understand:

1 Peter 2:9-10
9 But you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for God's own possession, that you may proclaim the excellencies of Him who has called you out of darkness into His marvelous light; 10 for you once were not a people, but now you are the people of God; you had not received mercy, but now you have received mercy.
NASB

Note carefully: Before these saints had received God's effectual call, they were not the people of God in time!

Boxcar

[Greyfox]

More evidence that religious fanatics are off in a dream world and are essentially nuttier than fruit cakes.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/world/...-world-is-nigh

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

Since you don't understand my question about "whoever", let me help you.

Definition of whoever:

any person who: used to indicate a person or people whose identity is not known

no matter who: used to indicate a person or people whose identity is not important.

Using the definition of the word "whoever" as a substitution

"I have come [as] a light into the world, that any person, whose identity is not known, believes in Me should not abide in darkness. John 12:46

"no matter who , whose identity is not important, believes on Him will not be put to shame." 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for the same Lord over all is rich to all who call upon Him. 13 For " no matter, whose identity is not important, who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved." Romans 10:11-13

"Whoever" means no identity such as the "elect" is included. It means any person or no matter who (any person).

The elect have no identity in this world on a horizontal level. But all of them were KNOWN by name and identity by God in eternity past . Their names were written in the Lamb's Book of Life in eternity! Never forget that.

Whoever means "whatever person". What Jesus taught is true. Whoever believes in him shall not abide in darkness. So...what is your point? Explain yourself.

Just understand this: That "whoever" comes to Christ has been effectually called! Whoever comes to Christ, that person had been given to the Son by the Father in eternity past. Whoever comes to the Son, it's because the Son revealed the Father to them, etc., etc.

As it's also written:

John 6:44-45
44 "No one can come to Me, unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up on the last day.
NASB

So, all the "whoevers" in this dark, forlorn world who have come to believe in Christ, have experienced the supernatural power of God. God chose the "whoevers" long before the "whoevers" chose him! The "whoevers" in scripture do not preclude the necessity for God's saving grace, which Paul likened to resurrection power!

Boxcar

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by TJDave

Which is none of your business.

No, but it's theirs. I'm simply calling it to their attention that unless they change that condition, they (and you too!) will pay the penalty for all eternity. What should I do? Say nothing while all around me merrily skip their way to perdition? How loving would that be?

Suppose your house was on fire in the dead of night and you didn't know it because you're in a deep sleep. Would you not want people at the very least to try to alert you to the imminent danger? Even your own scriptures attest to this fact and approves of those who try to win souls.

Prov 11:30-31
30 The fruit of the righteous is a tree of life,
And he who is wise wins souls.
31 If the righteous will be rewarded in the earth,
How much more the wicked and the sinner!
NASB

Even God when He redeems a life from the darkness, it is said that he crowns that person with lovingkindness and compassion.

Ps 103:2-4
2 Bless the Lord, O my soul,
And forget none of His benefits;
3 Who pardons all your iniquities;
Who heals all your diseases;
4 Who redeems your life from the pit;
Who crowns you with lovingkindness and compassion;
NASB

But then...the arrogant and prideful do despise God's tender mercies, compassions and lovingkindnesses, don't they?

Boxcar

[Show Me the Wire]

Thank you for answering my question: Do you really not understand what you are saying?

You really don't understand the insanity of your position. How is their inability to believe not God's plan? You state everything is predestined in eternity past, so if they are not called by the Father to believe, elected in eternity past, they have no ability to believe. Additionally, you claim man does not have free will. By your own statement you are agreeing they can't believe, because it is not God's will for them to believe and they have no free will to make a decision to believe.

[Show Me the Wire]

Originally Posted by boxcar

Quote me whereby I have said that. Quote and give me the post number.
You're lying through your teeth and you know it. I have never said that God saves all without exception. That is YOUR position on the atonement, i.e. Christ died for all without exception.

Boxcar

You do have reading comprehension problems or is English not your native tongue.

This is what you said,

It is you who says that God saves all without exception.

Your statement is referring to me and what I said in an earlier post.

My response to you was,

Again quote me. Another straw argument based on a false representation.

Meaning for you to quote me stating that God saves all without exception in any of my previous posts.

Now you are asking me to quote that you said what I supposedly said. You are one confused person. Really doesn't surprise me, since you argued against your own position on creation from nothing.

[Show Me the Wire]

I'm simply calling it to their attention that unless they change that condition, they (and you too!) will pay the penalty for all eternity.

How can someone change a condition to avoid paying the penalty for all eternity, if the decision about paying the penalty has been determined (predestination) already in eternity past?

Thinking you could avoid something that is unavoidable is an insane thought.

[boxcar]

Originally Posted by Show Me the Wire

How can someone change a condition to avoid paying the penalty for all eternity, if the decision about paying the penalty has been determined (predestination) already in eternity past?

Thinking you could avoid something that is unavoidable is an insane thought.

But that's point. Thask and Actor know they can't. Yet, they won't humble themselves to cry out to God for help. So who is insane here!?

Eccl 9:3b
3 Furthermore, the hearts of the sons of men are full of evil, and insanity is in their hearts throughout their lives. Afterwards they go to the dead.
NASB

Rational people when knowing they are imminent danger and can't do a thing to extricate themselves from a perilous situation, cry out to others to save them. Of course, the root spiritual problem is not just the will per se but the heart, which is the seat of all the faculties. In their heart, they don't believe they are in any danger. They cannot sense any danger. So, they're content to drum up a litany of excuses to not believe. As you yourself have recently and rightly said, men's hearts are deceitful above all else -- so most have conned themselves into believing they don't need to be saved.

Did you know that the first "open heart" surgery is recorded for us in the NT?

Acts 16:14
14 And a certain woman named Lydia, from the city of Thyatira, a seller of purple fabrics, a worshiper of God, was listening; and the Lord opened her heart to respond to the things spoken by Paul
NASB

Just as the physically dead are incapable of responding to any stimuli, likewise the spiritual dead are unable to respond to spiritual truth. The Lord gave her that new heart that he promised under the New Covenant, and then...she became alive. In her living, born again condition, she was able to respond to the stimulus of spiritual truth; for the gospel is the POWER of God for salvation (Rom 1:16).

So many scriptures speak to God's necessary role and all-important miraculous power in salvation; yet, you seem so totally oblivious and indifferent to them all.

Boxcar