Well I will never place a bet at DEL again.....

[lex]

Originally Posted by v j stauffer

What does it mean to you that both the owner and trainer of the horse had no problem with the actions of the assistant starter?

Not sure who the connections are in this case but there are plenty of garbage owners and trainers out there so it doesn't mean much.

Can't believe there's even a debate on a horse getting punched in the face multiple times.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

No, they are not. Just like putting a bit in the mouth to control a horse isn't abuse.

But punching a horse repeatedly in the head/face...maybe he misses by an inch and punches the horse square in the eye and blinds it?

Far different from pulling an ear or whipping on the flank or holding a tail (have never really seen a starter that I can remember YANKING a tail)...all three of which have pretty much zero chance of doing any damage.

As opposed to repeated punches to the face and head, where one can do permanent damage to the eye, lips, teeth...I will rule out concussion although who knows...maybe he hits in just the right spot to cause a concussion...

I feel stupid just for having to type all of this. It should be obvious.

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.

When you don’t know the difference between hind quarters and the flank, when you don’t know it’s damaging to hit the flank and actually against the rules of whipping, maybe you shouldn’t be making such a scene.

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.

Ok, forgive a stupid question. Are twitches ever used in these situations, or is it presumed the visuals would be too negative?

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by Mulerider

Ok, forgive a stupid question. Are twitches ever used in these situations, or is it presumed the visuals would be too negative?

Used in the gate? No, and wouldn't be helpful. There's too much involved with using a twitch to make them practical, plus that'd be completely disrupting to the horse's mind of what he's about to do in just a few seconds. Plus disengaging the twitch before breaking? No, a twitch couldn't be an option in the gate.

[Mulerider]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Used in the gate? No, and wouldn't be helpful. There's too much involved with using a twitch to make them practical, plus that'd be completely disrupting to the horse's mind of what he's about to do in just a few seconds. Plus disengaging the twitch before breaking? No, a twitch couldn't be an option in the gate.

Yes, obviously in the gate it would be problematic. I could see it used outside the gate, though. But that's where visuals might come into play even more. (By the way, have you seen the one-man, "EZ" twitches? Only way to go, IMO.)

Edit: let me expand on that a second. I have a horse that a couple of years ago developed an eye infection. The vet instructed me to apply ointment under the upper eyelid daily for 14 days. The horse wasn't fond of that treatment AT ALL, so I bought one of the EZ twitches. Piece of cake. Old chain twitch went into the trash.

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.

When you don’t know the difference between hind quarters and the flank, when you don’t know it’s damaging to hit the flank and actually against the rules of whipping, maybe you shouldn’t be making such a scene.

As someone who is clueless, I have seen literally thousands of horses act up in the gate, both in the mornings and in the afternoons. Yet I have never seen one punched in the face four times and had his head slammed into the gate.

Is this a new procedure I am just learning about now that we should all expect to see used more often in the future?

Us clueless guys would like to know.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

As someone who is clueless, I have seen literally thousands of horses act up in the gate, both in the mornings and in the afternoons. Yet I have never seen one punched in the face four times and had his head slammed into the gate.

Is this a new procedure I am just learning about now that we should all expect to see used more often in the future?

Us clueless guys would like to know.

When a guy says "punch" for an open-hand slap, then I call him disingenuous.

[turfnsport]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

When a guy says "punch" for an open-hand slap, then I call him disingenuous.

Yes, punches 3 and 4 were just a couple of open handed light slaps. I'm clueless I guess.

Looking forward to seeing this new "open handed slap" method used more often.

Give me a ****ing break.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by turfnsport

Yes, punches 3 and 4 were just a couple of open handed light slaps. I'm clueless I guess.

Looking forward to seeing this new "open handed slap" method used more often.

Give me a ****ing break.

Give me one. A punch is a hit with a closed fist.

Exaggeration has no place here, nor does the lack of acknowledging that the horse nearly jerked him down head-first, and then he tried to buck the rider.

[clicknow]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

Give me one. A punch is a hit with a closed fist.

Exaggeration has no place here, nor does the lack of acknowledging that the horse nearly jerked him down head-first, and then he tried to buck the rider.

...but horse was not slapped/punched until AFTER he settled.

So this wasn't for safety, it was punishment, right?

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by clicknow

...but horse was not slapped/punched until AFTER he settled.

So this wasn't for safety, it was punishment, right?

Yeah, so settled that after all was quiet, the horse proceeded to act up again and tried to toss his rider right before the gate opened.

The assistant with his hands on the horse knew far better than any of you what was going on with this horse and his dangerous behavior.

I don't mind someone disagreeing with the way this was handled, but the exaggeration of what happened (they were not punches), the lack of acknowledgement of what the horse was doing wrong and the danger it was to the assistant starter and rider, and the extreme calls of punishment (criminal charges, give me an f'n break) are too much to let slide.

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.

When you don’t know the difference between hind quarters and the flank, when you don’t know it’s damaging to hit the flank and actually against the rules of whipping, maybe you shouldn’t be making such a scene.

I already said it needs actual horsemen.

I'm NOT A HORSEMAN. NEVER CLAIMED TO BE.

But I am a gambler and a ****ing customer of the racetracks, and I don't want to see a horse *I* bet on PUNCHED with a CLOSED FIST or "OPEN HANDED STRIKES" which in turn SLAMS THE HORSE'S HEAD INTO THE SIDE OF THE STARTING GATE, as you can CLEARLY SEE IN THE VIDEO.

So instead of ****ING ARGUING WITH ME OVER NONSENSE, get with the general story...and that is, people who BET REAL MONEY don't want to SEE their HORSE'S HEAD either PUNCHED or SLAMMED INTO THE STARTING gate by a CLUELESS assistant starter just prior to a race.

And people in GENERAL (talk about the image of the game), CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO SEE an EMPLOYEE of the RACETRACK punching or "OPEN HANDED STRIKING" a horse, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE HORSE HAD SETTLED DOWN from whatever was agitating it.

But I get it. You condone abusing race horses. You're awesome dude. You wanna buy this website?

[PaceAdvantage]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

There's too much involved with using a twitch to make them practical, plus that'd be completely disrupting to the horse's mind of what he's about to do in just a few seconds.

But open handed striking which in turn slams the horse's head into the side of the gate isn't disrupting at all. Good to know.

[v j stauffer]

Originally Posted by PaceAdvantage

I already said it needs actual horsemen.

I'm NOT A HORSEMAN. NEVER CLAIMED TO BE.

But I am a gambler and a ****ing customer of the racetracks, and I don't want to see a horse *I* bet on PUNCHED with a CLOSED FIST or "OPEN HANDED STRIKES" which in turn SLAMS THE HORSE'S HEAD INTO THE SIDE OF THE STARTING GATE, as you can CLEARLY SEE IN THE VIDEO.

So instead of ****ING ARGUING WITH ME OVER NONSENSE, get with the general story...and that is, people who BET REAL MONEY don't want to SEE their HORSE'S HEAD either PUNCHED or SLAMMED INTO THE STARTING gate by a CLUELESS assistant starter just prior to a race.

And people in GENERAL (talk about the image of the game), CERTAINLY DON'T WANT TO SEE an EMPLOYEE of the RACETRACK punching or "OPEN HANDED STRIKING" a horse, ESPECIALLY AFTER THE HORSE HAD SETTLED DOWN from whatever was agitating it.

But I get it. You condone abusing race horses. You're awesome dude. You wanna buy this website?

Many qualified, caring people who were involved in both the investigation and subsequent hearing have emphatically stated they don't believe believe the assistant starter was CLUELESS. In fact it's been pretty much universally agreed upon that he is a talented, well respected member of the starting gate team. Included in that list are more than a few who 100% meet the criteria of being called horsemen.

I DO NOT CONDONE ABUSE OF ANY ANIMAL BY ANY PERSON AT ANY TIME.

[castaway01]

Originally Posted by Fager Fan

This thread needs the input of actual horsemen. You guys are clueless. A good example is above, where PA talks of open-handed strikes as “punches” and the real kicker - condones whipping the FLANK.

When you don’t know the difference between hind quarters and the flank, when you don’t know it’s damaging to hit the flank and actually against the rules of whipping, maybe you shouldn’t be making such a scene.

Anyone watching the video can see the starter hit the horse hard enough to twist a 1000-pound animal's head sideways, and he did it numerous times. The idea that you want to analyze exactly how many times the guy's fist was closed or open when you can SEE THE IMPACT shows how desperate you are to defend your cousin, er, the starter.

I do know that if someone hit you hard enough to bounce your fat head off that gate a few times, you wouldn't be getting up. Based on the quality of your posts (Vic's posts are to be expected because while he's a great handicapper but has zero integrity) someone may have already done it.