It's on! The Official Boycott Keeneland Thread.

[Jeff P]

Santa Anita during the first 15 days of Keeneland's fall 2017 meet:
http://www.PlayersBoycott.org/sax-si...de-15days.html

UP +$7.28M +9.72%



-jp
.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by Jeff P

Using today's initial chart data...

Keeneland during the first 15 days of their fall 2017 meet:
http://www.PlayersBoycott.org/kee-si...de-15days.html

Down -$10.0M -8.53%



Belmont during the first 15 days of Keeneland's fall 2017 meet:
http://www.PlayersBoycott.org/bel-si...de-15days.html

UP +$14.2M +13.05%





-jp

.

Is boycott on at Churchill? It really pisses me off how they tried to put Ky Downs out of business.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by LemonSoupKid

What do you guys think is the most achievable [lowered] track take currently at a large track? It really is hard to appeal to "increased capital costs", which is a legit point I think otherwise ... but not when you increase take and the handle goes down.

Just to take a stab, I think the game would be at least a push even if it lowered the take to 10% min, 15% max for all wagers. It might get increased enough handle to do that much better. At this point it the country/culture, I do wonder how many would be attracted to the game at these far more reasonable prices, if they were in fact offered.

One main pool should be at 10% nationwide: trifecta, super, exacta or daily double and no pool should be over 20%

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by cj

https://twitter.com/o_crunk/status/923671529543622656

Gotta say, pretty proud of horseplayers.

Down $10 million still isn't enough for KEE to admit it was a failure. So are they basically even (net) after the increased take? They definitely won't reverse policy if they are even w/big sales increases to boot.

[Afleet]

Originally Posted by AndyC

Great way to get you to make other bets. If you spend substantial time handicapping 5 races it would be very hard to just stick with the P-5. Especially if you are knocked out early but feel that you had some very strong picks late.

agree w/this

[cj]

Originally Posted by Afleet

Down $10 million still isn't enough for KEE to admit it was a failure. So are they basically even (net) after the increased take? They definitely won't reverse policy if they are even w/big sales increases to boot.

Keeneland will never, ever admit the takeout hike was a failure. No track EVER admits that. It could have been 50% and they would spin it to be the greatest decision ever made. It really doesn't matter. Horseplayers have stepped up, or in this case, stepped back.

[JustRalph]

Originally Posted by cj

Keeneland will never, ever admit the takeout hike was a failure. No track EVER admits that. It could have been 50% and they would spin it to be the greatest decision ever made. It really doesn't matter. Horseplayers have stepped up, or in this case, stepped back.

Amen!

Who’s next?

[NY Racing Fan]

Originally Posted by Afleet

Is boycott on at Churchill? It really pisses me off how they tried to put Ky Downs out of business.

I think too many boycotts creates a watered down effect and limits their effectiveness. I think that everyone should use the HANA track ratings to always determine value when playing the races. I feel that everyone should gear up for next Spring's Keeneland meet and make the boycott even stronger. We need to show the "A" tracks how another takeout increase will be responded to by the betting public.

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by NY Racing Fan

I think too many boycotts creates a watered down effect and limits their effectiveness. I think that everyone should use the HANA track ratings to always determine value when playing the races. I feel that everyone should gear up for next Spring's Keeneland meet and make the boycott even stronger. We need to show the "A" tracks how another takeout increase will be responded to by the betting public.

I couldnt disagree more about more boycotts. Once there is real economic effect there would be change.

I dont want to turn this into a political thread but there is a reason why the NFL is looking for ways to get out of this anthem mess, its about to get expensive.

In any industry a loss of money tends to create change.

[Fager Fan]

Originally Posted by NY Racing Fan

I think too many boycotts creates a watered down effect and limits their effectiveness. I think that everyone should use the HANA track ratings to always determine value when playing the races. I feel that everyone should gear up for next Spring's Keeneland meet and make the boycott even stronger. We need to show the "A" tracks how another takeout increase will be responded to by the betting public.

Isn't the best value the good odds on a tote board on a horse you like, regardless of takeout?

[the little guy]

Contrary to what has been suggested here, using two or three weeks of racing days to make serious conclusions about handle shifts is, at best, a dubious notion, and, in this case, badly misleading. Sure, if all jurisdictions involved had no weather to speak of, or other outside events, but this is not the case when comparing 2017 and 2016. In 2016, weather in NY was relatively poor during much of the month of October, which caused handle to be down at Belmont, and ( not surprisingly ), this affected Keeneland in a very positive way. A great day to check is Sunday October 8, where we enjoyed good weather in 2017 after poor weather in 2016...and Keeneland had the opposite situation. Not surprisingly, Belmont was up around $3 million, while Keeneland was down the same ( a $6 million swing ).

For this reason, I decided to go back and compare 2017 to 2015, just to get another sample, as clearly the 15 days so far offer at least a somewhat distorted view.


Keeneland 2017 handle through 15 days......$107,323,017

Keeneland 2015 handle through 15 days......$103,586,494


So, Keeneland is up over 3% year-to-year between 2017 and 2015.


Now, is this sample size a fair number to use for analysis? I don't think so, but it sure offers a very different perspective, and one that shows clearly why using a handful of days can be dangerous one way or another. Wait until it rains for three weeks one Saratoga. We at NYRA will look very stupid that Summer ( even stupider, I believe, than some of you already consider us ).

[cj]

You should work part time for Keeneland .

This is exactly the kind of stuff they'll be looking for in a few days. I'm not saying the data is wrong, but we never hear this kind of stuff to explain handle being UP. Will Belmont be quoted as saying they had a great meet because the weather sucked last year?

The numbers can always be spun any way the person doing the research wants to spin them. This is exactly why I said what I did...Keeneland would trumpet this is a success no matter what the numbers say.

[GMB@BP]

Having watched but 5 races on one card at kee this meet how has the weather been?

[cj]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

Having watched but 5 races on one card at kee this meet how has the weather been?

They had one bad day, a Sunday I think. The rest has been great if memory serves. Field size is also better this year.

[the little guy]

Originally Posted by cj

You should work part time for Keeneland .

This is exactly the kind of stuff they'll be looking for in a few days. I'm not saying the data is wrong, but we never hear this kind of stuff to explain handle being UP. Will Belmont be quoted as saying they had a great meet because the weather sucked last year?

The numbers can always be spun any way the person doing the research wants to spin them. This is exactly why I said what I did...Keeneland would trumpet this is a success no matter what the numbers say.

Keeneland may well spin things, however, as you well know, the spin here has been extreme. THAT is what I am pointing out....but you know this, and since privately you have agreed with this, I'm surprised by your post.