insane performance by Life Is Good

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by Robert Fischer

A mile is a great distance for a stakes race.

It's a great test and it brings together different horses, but it's not a division.

Want to run in the championships? Choose a division.


otherwise the mile should be a $75k ungraded stake on the undercard


the 'big ass fans' sponsorship (i think has since transitioned or lowered the promotion of the name) was especially tacky

1. I generally agree. The Met Mile was an incredible race back when it was on Memorial Day.

2. Big Ass Fans still sponsors it and Collmus doesn't mention all the sponsors but mentions that one.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

If Precisionist and Gulch could win the Sprint, so could plenty other horses that route but aren't 10f types.

Those were pretty special horses.

Some horses are just best suited to around a mile. The only thing that bothers me is when a horse that should be in the Classic goes in the dirt Mile instead.

Maybe it's a shame we don't run more Grade 1 miles, but it's an odd distance for some tracks. The Breeder's love milers.

[bisket]

Back when horses were horses, they ran a mile, 1 1/16 and 1/1/8 mile and the race was a stepping stone for 1 1/4 mile we had a sport. Today those races are singular events for Breeders.... we're being conned!!

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by dilanesp

1. I generally agree. The Met Mile was an incredible race back when it was on Memorial Day.

I don't care what the numbers say about the handle because they are probably not being analyzed correctly anyway. The Met Mile was a great race that could stand on it's own and attract a large crowd and solid handle on Memorial Day with any support at all. The Met does not attract extra people to the Belmont Stakes card. It may handle more on that day than on Memorial Day because the crowd and betting is generally larger Belmont Stakes day, but you could put a 12 horse field of claimers on the Belmont card it would handle a lot of money. I haven't been to Belmont on Memorial since the Met moved. I previously never missed a Memorial Day card.

[cj]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Those were pretty special horses.

Some horses are just best suited to around a mile. The only thing that bothers me is when a horse that should be in the Classic goes in the dirt Mile instead.

Maybe it's a shame we don't run more Grade 1 miles, but it's an odd distance for some tracks. The Breeder's love milers.

I keep hearing that about milers but I'm not sure it is really true. Which are these great miler sires?

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by cj

I keep hearing that about milers but I'm not sure it is really true. Which are these great miler sires?

Pedigree is not my specialty.

All else being equal, if you win the Met, Cigar or BC Dirt Mile you are probably going to be held in higher regard than a top sprinter. That's why most versatile top horses stretch out. The money is bigger for the best milers and even bigger for the classic winners.

[bisket]

Originally Posted by cj

I keep hearing that about milers but I'm not sure it is really true. Which are these great miler sires?

Buckpasser held the world record for a mile for 2 years before Dr Fager beat it. both mile races were at 2 turns and still stand today. Buckpasser became one of the best horses in history because he was tested at a mile as a stepping stone to the classics. Buckpasser was one of the most influential sires in history, but thankfully he was tested on the track. Knicks Go wins one race at the classic distance and his trainer is rewarded for being a coward for 2 years... that's not a sport....

[mostpost]

Originally Posted by cj

Dirt Mile isn't even a real division, no idea why this is a race. There are like two races all year at the distance that matter, both in New York around one turn, and this one.

I was shocked to learn that Big Ass Fans is a company that makes
large industrial fans. For two years I thought it was an organization of racing aficionados.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

Pedigree is not my specialty.

All else being equal, if you win the Met, Cigar or BC Dirt Mile you are probably going to be held in higher regard than a top sprinter. That's why most versatile top horses stretch out. The money is bigger for the best milers and even bigger for the classic winners.

The Met Mile has a false reputation as a "stallion maker" but the 2 horses that have gone on to good stud careers in the past couple of decades (Quality Road, Ghostzapper) were both top sprinters and top middle/classic distance horses. The upcoming stallions Mitole and Vekoma were top class sprinters.

From the 32 winners of the NYRA/Cigar Mile, the best stallions produced were 2 of the first 3 winners of the race, Forty Niner and Quiet American (and Forty Niner was actually dumped on Japan fairly early on in his stud career).

The Dirt Mile thus far has only produced marginally good stallions Goldencents (a more than capable sprinter) and Liam's Map (who clearly should have been in the Classic). City of Light was a multiple Grade 1-winning sprinter who would have easily contended in either the Sprint or the Classic that year. Knicks Go proved yesterday he was a Classic-type, but on the comeback clearly used last year's Dirt Mile as a means to an end similar to Gun Runner and Accelerate in 2016 (which is why the race should be on the undercard). One could argue that Life is Good is still in the phases of a comeback and might prove to handle 9f or more (if he stays in training), but he had clearly done enough to deserve a shot in a real race like the BC Sprint.

Looking at the current top 10 stallions:

1) Into Mischief - was a successful sprinter; never started at a mile
2) Ghostzapper - see above
3) Curlin - ran a triple digit BSF in a runaway victory going 7f in his debut
4) Paynter - broke his maiden at 5.5f before going on a stupid campaign that basically ruined him; ran 7f in 1:21+ in his heroic comeback
5) Tapit - who knows what he was capable of; trained by a lunatic
6) Speightstown - a champion sprinter
7) Munnings - a son of Speightstown; also a top sprinter
8) Hard Spun - a classic type whose only Grade 1 win was the 7f King's Bishop
9) Uncle Mo - went 1:09+ in a runaway victory going 6f as a 2yo; lost the King's Bishop by a whisker to another top class sprinter Caleb's Posse (who opted for the Dirt Mile instead of the Sprint and did nothing at stud)
10) Twirling Candy - a classic type whose only Grade 1 win was the 7f Malibu where he broke Spectacular Bid's world record (because the track was souped up)

Of those 10 only Ghostzapper ran in the Met Mile, Cigar Mile, or Dirt Mile. It was a somewhat anti-climatic start as he had already won the BC Classic, Woodward, and Vosburgh and could have retired as a 4yo (and probably should have since he broke a bone in his ankle only a couple of weeks after the Met Mile).

[GMB@BP]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

The Met Mile has a false reputation as a "stallion maker" but the 2 horses that have gone on to good stud careers in the past couple of decades (Quality Road, Ghostzapper) were both top sprinters and top middle/classic distance horses. The upcoming stallions Mitole and Vekoma were top class sprinters.

From the 32 winners of the NYRA/Cigar Mile, the best stallions produced were 2 of the first 3 winners of the race, Forty Niner and Quiet American (and Forty Niner was actually dumped on Japan fairly early on in his stud career).

The Dirt Mile thus far has only produced marginally good stallions Goldencents (a more than capable sprinter) and Liam's Map (who clearly should have been in the Classic). City of Light was a multiple Grade 1-winning sprinter who would have easily contended in either the Sprint or the Classic that year. Knicks Go proved yesterday he was a Classic-type, but on the comeback clearly used last year's Dirt Mile as a means to an end similar to Gun Runner and Accelerate in 2016 (which is why the race should be on the undercard). One could argue that Life is Good is still in the phases of a comeback and might prove to handle 9f or more (if he stays in training), but he had clearly done enough to deserve a shot in a real race like the BC Sprint.

Looking at the current top 10 stallions:

1) Into Mischief - was a successful sprinter; never started at a mile
2) Ghostzapper - see above
3) Curlin - ran a triple digit BSF in a runaway victory going 7f in his debut
4) Paynter - broke his maiden at 5.5f before going on a stupid campaign that basically ruined him; ran 7f in 1:21+ in his heroic comeback
5) Tapit - who knows what he was capable of; trained by a lunatic
6) Speightstown - a champion sprinter
7) Munnings - a son of Speightstown; also a top sprinter
8) Hard Spun - a classic type whose only Grade 1 win was the 7f King's Bishop
9) Uncle Mo - went 1:09+ in a runaway victory going 6f as a 2yo; lost the King's Bishop by a whisker to another top class sprinter Caleb's Posse (who opted for the Dirt Mile instead of the Sprint and did nothing at stud)
10) Twirling Candy - a classic type whose only Grade 1 win was the 7f Malibu where he broke Spectacular Bid's world record (because the track was souped up)

Of those 10 only Ghostzapper ran in the Met Mile, Cigar Mile, or Dirt Mile. It was a somewhat anti-climatic start as he had already won the BC Classic, Woodward, and Vosburgh and could have retired as a 4yo (and probably should have since he broke a bone in his ankle only a couple of weeks after the Met Mile).

I am not sure you need to be a classic type stallion producer to be anywhere near the top of the leaderboards. Sprinters breeding sprinters i suppose.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by GMB@BP

I am not sure you need to be a classic type stallion producer to be anywhere near the top of the leaderboards. Sprinters breeding sprinters i suppose.

Early speed is super useful even in big route stakes. This might be due to drugs, or training, but we don't see many "wind up and make one big run" horses winning the TC races or the BC Classic anymore. Baffert, specifically, seems to have a real preference for speedy types he can get to stretch out.

If you can win big races with sprint-heavy pedigrees, it's clearly the way to go.

[classhandicapper]

I'm not sure Into Mischief is an easy example to evaluate.

1. He won the Cash Call at 1 1/16th at 2 and looked on his way to being able to stretch out or at least be a top miler.

2. He started off the season at 3 at 7F, was put on the shelf, restarted in October at 7F, missed another 2 months, came back again at 7F and was retired.

Most people wouldn't look at him and think "sprinter". They would look at him as a horse with a lot of potential whose career was interrupted. So it would be hard to tell what he was capable of and what he might pass along to his offspring.

Munnings is more of what I would call a sprinter.

However, that's not the point I was making. The point I was making is if you owned a versatile horse would you rather be known as a Grade 1 winning sprinter or a Grade 1 winning miler? I think I'd rather win races like the Met, Cigar Mile, BC mile than any of the sprints because breeders would prefer seeing that on my horse's resume and I'd get paid more.

If all you have is the BC Sprint and BC Classic, some horses are going to be in a less than ideal spot and have less of an opportunity to add a top race to their resume.

On the flip side, you want to avoid horses like Liam's Map ducking the Classic.

Then again, maybe Uncle Mo was really a great miler that should have skipped the Classic and run in the Mile.

[dilanesp]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I'm not sure Into Mischief is an easy example to evaluate.

1. He won the Cash Call at 1 1/16th at 2 and looked on his way to being able to stretch out or at least mile and do fine.

2. He started off the season at 3 at 7F, was put on the shelf, restarted in October at 7F, missed another 2 months, came back again at 7F and was retired.

Most people wouldn't look at him and think "sprinter".

They would look at him as a horse with a lot of potential whose career was interrupted. So it would be hard to tell what he was capable of and what he might pass along to his offspring.

And of course Into Mischief had two famous siblings who could go a distance.

[Spalding No!]

Originally Posted by classhandicapper

I'm not sure Into Mischief is an easy example to evaluate.

1. He won the Cash Call at 1 1/16th at 2 and looked on his way to being able to stretch out or at least mile and do fine.

2. He started off the season at 3 at 7F, was put on the shelf, restarted in October at 7F, missed another 2 months, came back again at 7F and was retired.

Most people wouldn't look at him and think "sprinter".

They would look at him as a horse with a lot of potential whose career was interrupted. So it would be hard to tell what he was capable of and what he might pass along to his offspring.

I agree with all of that. I might have lost the plot, though. My point was that those 3 mile Grade 1s have not been productive in terms of generating top stallions. And going back to his racing career, had he not shown himself capable of being a classic-type, Into Mischief almost certainly would have contended in a race like the BC Sprint.

In fact, I would presume most "milers" would do fine in the Sprint. The exceptions would be maybe the one-run types like Aldebaran (who was a bridesmaid for most of his career and unsuccessful stallion anyways). Like someone else said, front-running or tactical speed is the key. But even then, closers capable of staying 10 furlongs such as Dancing Spree or Pleasant Tap can do well in the Sprint.

Conclusion - the Dirt Mile is pointless and should be a Grade 2 undercard race with a modest purse like the Marathon.

[classhandicapper]

Originally Posted by Spalding No!

I agree with all of that. I might have lost the plot, though. My point was that those 3 mile Grade 1s have not been productive in terms of generating top stallions. And going back to his racing career, had he not shown himself capable of being a classic-type, Into Mischief almost certainly would have contended in a race like the BC Sprint.

In fact, I would presume most "milers" would do fine in the Sprint. The exceptions would be maybe the one-run types like Aldebaran (who was a bridesmaid for most of his career and unsuccessful stallion anyways). Like someone else said, front-running or tactical speed is the key. But even then, closers capable of staying 10 furlongs such as Dancing Spree or Pleasant Tap can do well in the Sprint.

Conclusion - the Dirt Mile is pointless and should be a Grade 2 undercard race with a modest purse like the Marathon.

It was a good list and analysis of what those mile races have produced recently.

I think I'm on an island with the BC mile. I love high quality 1 mile races. A lot of them are great tests because the pace is often extremely challenging, but the race is not so long that it automatically turns into a meltdown. A great horse can set a wicked pace and get a mile. When they do, I love it. The BC Mile has just had a few soft fields so far given it's a BC race.