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Old 09-14-2017, 12:56 AM   #61
AltonKelsey
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Yes, rumor has it that a pilgrimage to Tibet and intense study with the LLama's there, bestowed great wisdom on Mr Patterson.

Maybe Mark P , who has spoke highly of KP, can add some more insight as to what transpired during those years of 'study'
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:21 AM   #62
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Tim Ritvo, president of chief operating officer of The Stronach Group (TSG), which owns Laurel, said in a phone interview that he and Maryland Jockey Club vice president and general manager Sal Sinatra asked for and obtained proof that Gonzalez would not be just a “paper trainer” in lieu of the barred Navarro.

“Sal made sure and verified there was a complete transfer [by] the ownership that the horse [would be] staying with Claudio [and that] he was responsible for all the actions of the horse, and we clearly made sure it wasn’t just a trainer transfer to an assistant trainer or something like that,” Ritvo said. “I wanted no ‘program’ trainer. We wanted to make sure it wasn’t just a program trainer.”




http://www.thoroughbreddailynews.com...rs-scrambling/
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:06 AM   #63
MonmouthParkJoe
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With the utmost respect to you and Monmouth Park, a place where I cut my teeth as a groom, learned that fans had class, was applauded as I received my horse who just won the Oceanport Handicap beating Halo, which blew me away, and who loved the RBI a block outside the gate as well as Max's and the 8:15pm delivery of the form the night before there, the question I would like to ask is this.:

Back then, they went to great and I mean great lengths to make sure that anyone living there did not have a joint or a girl anywhere near their room. My room was searched at least 3 times in three months.

My question is, are they monitoring this guy as much as they monitored me and all the other backstretch employees with unannounced searches back in the 70's?

Personally, I would love to walk his barn. It would not take me more than 30 minutes to know what is going on. It's not that difficult if you know what you are looking for.

Thank you sir, in advance, for any response. I always enjoy your take on things that come up here.

Honestly I do not know how much he is monitored. I think the stewards do a great job there. I am not at Monmouth anymore so I cant really speak to what has happened the last couple months, but I would imagine his success has raised some eye brows.

As a bettor I do not even wager on the product anymore because of him. It really is sad what it has become.
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:47 AM   #64
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Honestly I do not know how much he is monitored. I think the stewards do a great job there. I am not at Monmouth anymore so I cant really speak to what has happened the last couple months, but I would imagine his success has raised some eye brows.

As a bettor I do not even wager on the product anymore because of him. It really is sad what it has become.
MP Joe, you hit the nail right on the head. You won't bet there because of Navarro, others won't race there because of him. Now Dennis embraces him and says "he told me this will never happen again". The Asbury Park Press ran an article today pleading with MP to get rid of this guy as it will hurt racing in the long run, if anyone thinks that Navarro should continue to do what he has, proof aside, then you are looking at the demise of racing at MP for reasons within your control.
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Old 09-14-2017, 11:36 AM   #65
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Navarro is not the only that is so proficient at training horses. i give Timmy credit for taking action, but he knows that there is more to be done to clean up the game and he actually knows better than myself what it would take to get this game back on firm ground. he might be better than anyone else at this because he's been around the block a few times.
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:07 PM   #66
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As far as due practice goes, how is it that a casino can ban you for winning too much? If you go to Ceasars' Palace and win a lot over an extended period of time, you could be banned from coming back. What due process is being applied there?
Easy. When you win too much at a casino...the casino bans you because you are winning the CASINO'S money. But in horseracing, the track takes its cut right off the top...so the cheaters are only stealing from the "customers". Consequently, since the track's profits are secure from the "cheaters", there is a strong incentive to downplay the level of cheating at the track...in order to protect the "integrity" of the place -- and of the game in general.
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:23 PM   #67
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"we are all professionals here" Really Navarro? How professional is your behavior, you need to set the example. The public views you as a cheat, it hasn't been proven and maybe never will but having that perception warrants every negative press you get. Grow the f*ck up and show those who think you are a cheat reasons to say you are a great trainer.
"He was very wrong for saying that. We are professionals. We should not say that"...Navaro said of Gindi's remarks. And yet...Navaro could be heard yelling "YEEEEAH"...after Gindi mentioned the $20K with the bookie.

By the way...shouldn't the IRS be raising an eyebrow over this? I mean...it's still illegal to bet big money with a bookie...NO?
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:03 PM   #68
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It’s yet another black eye for the sport, which has been abandoned by so many fans, while others have opted not to wager on Monmouth Park’s races. The focus now must be on integrity and restoring public confidence.

Ed Plesa Jr., another Monmouth Park trainer, had a strong reaction after seeing the video.

"People will look at that and think that is the sport,’’ Plesa said. "For Navarro to be yelling out 'juice' is mind-boggling to me. Here's a trainer that has a tremendous win percentage.

Two states already have taken a stand. Now, it’s time for Monmouth Park and New Jersey racing to do a little soul-searching of its own.

Because I don't think he's worth it.



http://www.app.com/story/sports/hors...rro/567710001/

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Old 09-14-2017, 02:06 PM   #69
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"He was very wrong for saying that. We are professionals. We should not say that"...Navaro said of Gindi's remarks. And yet...Navaro could be heard yelling "YEEEEAH"...after Gindi mentioned the $20K with the bookie.

By the way...shouldn't the IRS be raising an eyebrow over this? I mean...it's still illegal to bet big money with a bookie...NO?
I am sure they are both on the IRS radar.
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Old 09-14-2017, 02:27 PM   #70
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i had wondered why his horse scratched from one of the Indiana grand stakes races yesterday.

Good for Indiana and Laurel
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:02 PM   #71
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i had wondered why his horse scratched from one of the Indiana grand stakes races yesterday.

Good for Indiana and Laurel
I feel bad for Looch the owner but he picked the wrong pill.
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Old 09-14-2017, 03:03 PM   #72
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We'd all love to live in a world where due process is applied fairly and works. But in horse racing it doesn't work. The cheaters have found a way to game the system when it comes to drug testing. It's that simple. In addition, it's highly likely the cheaters are also lining the pockets of those who might cause resistance to their practices.

With all of this, the only thing the tracks can do is to act within whatever legal means they have at their disposal to remove anyone that is impacting the quality of their product. If the tracks don't think Navarro is impacting their product, they are idiots. When I open the racing form and see a track littered with guys like Navarro, Ness and the like I normally move on. It's not easy to dodge these landmines since they are popping up everywhere but I personally don't take their racing seriously when guys like this tower over their racing landscape.

As far as due practice goes, how is it that a casino can ban you for winning too much? If you go to Ceasars' Palace and win a lot over an extended period of time, you could be banned from coming back. What due process is being applied there?
The casino thing was already addressed. But we are talking two different things, one as a trainer and one as a bettor.

A trainer that has a license must be afforded due process for any type of violation handed down by the racing commission or stewards. A privately owned track can rule off a trainer, or anyone else for that matter, anytime they want. There are some nuances between different tracks and ownership, but that's the cliff notes version. So yes, in a perfect world every track could simply not accept his entries and that's it, no due process needed. Since the penalty came from the stewards and is being referred to the racing commission, that is why I mentioned it.

As an aside, if you decide to play any big money in a casino (esp Vegas), shop around. They stand to make a risk free profit on you, so use it to your advantage for rooms and F&B

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Old 09-14-2017, 04:26 PM   #73
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The casino thing was already addressed. But we are talking two different things, one as a trainer and one as a bettor.

A trainer that has a license must be afforded due process for any type of violation handed down by the racing commission or stewards. A privately owned track can rule off a trainer, or anyone else for that matter, anytime they want. There are some nuances between different tracks and ownership, but that's the cliff notes version. So yes, in a perfect world every track could simply not accept his entries and that's it, no due process needed. Since the penalty came from the stewards and is being referred to the racing commission, that is why I mentioned it.

As an aside, if you decide to play any big money in a casino (esp Vegas), shop around. They stand to make a risk free profit on you, so use it to your advantage for rooms and F&B
Agree. But here is the reality of this mess, if the operators feel his conduct is detrimental to others he can be removed from the premises. At this point the uncertainty of the future of racing at MP should be something Dennis is more concerned about and keeping Navarro around to "fill" races isn't going to win you any votes. A study was performed and it shows races where he was the favorite had the least amount of betting dollars on those races at MP, by the way the study didn't include any off shore bookies!
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Old 09-14-2017, 05:20 PM   #74
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Easy. When you win too much at a casino...the casino bans you because you are winning the CASINO'S money. But in horseracing, the track takes its cut right off the top...so the cheaters are only stealing from the "customers". Consequently, since the track's profits are secure from the "cheaters", there is a strong incentive to downplay the level of cheating at the track...in order to protect the "integrity" of the place -- and of the game in general.
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Old 09-14-2017, 06:02 PM   #75
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Honestly I do not know how much he is monitored. I think the stewards do a great job there. I am not at Monmouth anymore so I cant really speak to what has happened the last couple months, but I would imagine his success has raised some eye brows.

As a bettor I do not even wager on the product anymore because of him. It really is sad what it has become.

Thanks Joe.

I assumed that you were still involved there to some capacity.

I really hate to see Monmouth go south.

Sooo many great days spent there though.

And I certainly understand why you cannot bet there.



As far as this guy training, most people have a perception that it is some kind of wizardry going on. It is not. Anyone that has trained horses with capacity and understands how larger claiming outfits really work could spend just a little bit of time there and fully understand that he is either the second coming of Ben Jones or he is cheating , how he is cheating and to what extent he is cheating.

It's right there to see. Somebody just has to go and see it.

I hope Bobby K, John F. or someone makes sure that happens.

Those guys know the deal.

Anyway, thanks again for the answer.
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